The World of Computer Software/The World of Computer Software.iso/wiz7help.zip/DSAVANT.TXT

Text File | 1992-11-07 | 203KB | 5,353 lines

 ************
Topic 7         Mon Oct 05, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 21:45 EDT
Sub: Crusaders of the Dark Savant SPOILERS

Special topic area for solutions, help and general "I'm stuck and I can't get
out" help for Crusaders of the Dark Savant.
351 message(s) total.
 ************
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 1         Thu Oct 08, 1992
SIR-TECH [Todd]              at 17:52 EDT

To kill the Queen T'rang you must find the hidden cemetary and go below it.
Walk around here awile and you will come to some white egss. Use it here. The
entrance to the cemetary is in the Livestock center.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 2         Fri Oct 09, 1992
T.YEE2 [Freeman]             at 05:00 EDT

Can anyone give some general tips regarding the four bean receptacles in
Munkharama?

TY
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 3         Fri Oct 09, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 13:31 EDT

What do you do with the heads that display different emotions in New  City-
(they are in the building that you have to use the coin to enter)? Plus what
are the two stones for that you get in New City, I have no  idea how to enter
Old City, I can't get in the T'Rang building, I can't find the OrkOgre castle
even using the instructions the Gorn gave me. I am having nothing but trouble-
HELP!!! I must be getting old.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 4         Fri Oct 09, 1992
AGNARI                       at 15:43 EDT

  They sound like very good questions and if answered in detail we'll need a
spoilers topic.  SINCE I GOT MY COPY LATE, have only managed to boot it and
port one party over and at present don't know anything informative about CoDS.
Thus I can't give any veiled hints or assistance at this point.  But it's the
weekend and I've got no projects scheduled till 7:30 monday :) so things may
change somewhat.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 5         Fri Oct 09, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 18:26 EDT

    You cant get into the T'rang building from New City.  You have to get in
by teleporting from Nyctalinth.

   Thanks for the info on the T'rang queen but I've completely searchef
<searched> the Livestock pen and have found no stairs.  I think I've  walked
over every square in the building with a Detect Secret spell and havent found
a thing...is there an item I need to use to find the stairs?
                          Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 6         Sat Oct 10, 1992
SIR-TECH [Todd]              at 11:55 EDT

The bean receptacles are random in every game.  Orkogre castle is to the left
of the path after you meet Lord Galiere.  Agent:  You must first visit Orkogre
castle and go through Murkatos chambers, then you must use a tree near Rattkin
Ruins.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 7         Sun Oct 11, 1992
M.HUSTON1 [Mark]             at 08:21 EDT

Has anyone figured out the Twisted Heads puzzle in the New City musuem?  None
of the NPC's know anything about it, and I'm not looking forward to trying all
the combinations.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 8         Sun Oct 11, 1992
BARAK                        at 12:01 EDT

I just started Savant! Any suggestions on how to get into New City?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 9         Sun Oct 11, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 12:29 EDT



 Barak:  Kill whomever is blocking you I guess.

 =-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 Ag/Sir Tech: Some questions on New City.

 o Whom do I see to figure out the Twisted Heads puzzle in the
   Museum?

 o Whom do I see to help me get into the Argus Arms Black Market?

 o Right across the Constabulary where the prisoner was kept,
   there is a building that has a door inside that needs, I assume,
   one of those black wafers to gain access.  I've recovered one
   black wafer elsewheres, but this one doesn't seem to work here.

 o The only way I can obtain the Old City Access Key is by killing
   Prof Wunderlund.  Should I've had to continue to try and
   get the key by peaceful means?  (Hope Not!)


 Back to mapping the Old City ruins....



 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 10        Sun Oct 11, 1992
AGNARI                       at 13:44 EDT

  Gosh, Jeff sure I knew BoCF inside out but heck you got CoDS before I did so
you are ahead of me ;)  At least you got the old city access key, me in truce
negoitations the rat attacked and then while wounded ran off.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 11        Sun Oct 11, 1992
M.HUSTON1 [Mark]             at 14:19 EDT

Barak, I don't know about the rest, but talk to Dungore at the Inn/Tavern
about the Arms of Argus.  I'm still baffled about the Twisted Heads, too.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 12        Sun Oct 11, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 14:56 EDT



 Mark:  That's how I found about about the Black Market, from
 Dungore, but using his name at the Arms doesn't ring a bell
 with the moron there.


 You guys having a fit with that D'rang T'rang??  Only by bribing
 him do I seem to stay alive as the dudes that follow him around
 are mighty tough and make mice fodder out of my party...


 Jeff T.



 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 13        Sun Oct 11, 1992
P.GANGI1 [PMG]               at 16:17 EDT

Hi,
 Can anyone help explicitly with these problems?


1- I almost fininshed Orkcastle but can't figure the blood and have left two
gates although got the parchment. Help!

2-I went to Munkharama but can't do anything thanks to a bishop that gets 1
skill point a pop. Anything else I can do there?

3- went to Ukpyr and enlisted, but can't fire the musket. How do I or how do I
get firearms skill? I'm kind of at an impasse and could use some serious help
before going elsewher!
 Thanks
 Paul

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 14        Sun Oct 11, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 16:40 EDT



 Paul:  As for the musket you must use MERGE of the bullets/powder
 on the musket.  Otherwise, you're further than I!



 Well, went back to New City, found some Deadman's stuff in a
 chest, and got into the Black Market.

 Still Need:

 o Map/Item with clue to Twisted Heads.

 o Entry into the locked door with Blinking Lights (NOT the one
   at the jail, but across the street from it).

 o Haven't been able to enter the T'rang/Umpani embassies.


 Guess I'll move on for now...


 Jeff T.

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 15        Sun Oct 11, 1992
AGNARI                       at 20:36 EDT

  Well I've heard about the Black Market but any name I give RhinoHead doesn't
satisfy him so it's the bum's rush to the door. So what's the secret?

  Father Ralue asked me to give a message "slay not he that can not hear" to
Brother TS... at the bridge. Well the good brother only want's to talk about
the river, bridge or the city and doesn't seem to do anything but "I don't
know>... " standard dialog for wrong input.  Did I copy down the message wrong
or what????
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 16        Sun Oct 11, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 21:31 EDT

Agnari-
   The phrase is "Slay not he that CANNOT hear".. one word not two.  I think
syntax is very important when talking to NPC's.

    If anybody finds the ?Legend? map in old city can you let me know?  I cant
seem to find it.  I also cant seem to get into Murkatos Sanctum in Orkogre
castle either.
                                    Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 17        Sun Oct 11, 1992
AGNARI                       at 21:43 EDT

  Thanks Agent, yes I guess syntax is CRITICAL and this stuff either scrolls
by so slow you go brain dead or it goes by so fast you can't get it all
written down.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 18        Sun Oct 11, 1992
M.HUSTON1 [Mark]             at 21:53 EDT

Agnari-
  Mention "Black Market" to the rhino in the Arms of Argus and he'll let you
in.

Agent-
  I haven't been able to get into Murkatos Sanctum either (or through a couple
of other gates in the castle).  It seems like the drip in the ceiling might be
important, but I'm stuck.  Also, what do you mean by "Legend" map?  I found
another parchment in Old City, but I'm wondering what I missed.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 19        Sun Oct 11, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 22:16 EDT

Mark-
   Apparently there are a series of parchements you have to find that will
lead to the Astral Dominae.  So far I have the ?Temple? and ?Dragon? maps. I
heard from NPC's that the ?Legend? map is near Old City.  Maybe "near" iis the
key and it is not IN old city but by the entrance.. I dont know.
                              Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 20        Sun Oct 11, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 22:35 EDT


 Agent:  Where did you find the ?Temple? map????


 The ?Dragon? map is in Old City.  In addition to that, I have
 a ?Fool? map picked up by killing some Rattthingy along the
 way from the original starting point in the forest to New City.


 What is the use of the Deadman's Dagger, Hair, and Cloak that
 is found in New City?


 Anyone got into that durn door with the blinking lights that is
 located in the building across from the Constabulary???  I guess
 I need a different wafer from the one with the clue to the
 color-coded pattern.


 Jeff T.



 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 21        Mon Oct 12, 1992
PHOTOBASE                    at 03:12 EDT

As usual, you guys are way ahead of me. I knwo where the access to the old
city is but can gain access. Someone got the blueprints from the New City
library before I got there, I can not get the door unlocked at the Umpi
Detachment. What am I missing? Think Im moving on to (throwing a dart at the
map) Munkharama. Has anyone gone looking for Hilynda?

Sparks

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 22        Mon Oct 12, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 06:40 EDT


 Sparks:  There's a key to the Old City.   Have you been to the
 Library yet???




 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 23        Mon Oct 12, 1992
DVANDERSLICE [Gremlyn]       at 10:13 EDT

Anybody get into the forbidden zone locked door (where the card sets off the
alarm)?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 24        Mon Oct 12, 1992
AGNARI                       at 12:22 EDT

  Not that we've heard Gremlyn.  But setting off the alarm is a good way to
gain exp if your guys can handle multip sets of multipe Savant Guards or
Troopers.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 25        Mon Oct 12, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:45 EDT



 Well, being uneasy at killing all those NPCs, I started over.

 This time, I've made friends with Wunderlund, and gained some
 information, but still can't get him to give me the blasted
 City Key other than by killing him.  Has anyone been able to
 obtain the key from Wunderlund by peaceful means???

 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 26        Mon Oct 12, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 19:20 EDT

Jeff-
   Sorry I havent gotten him to give me the key either.  I THINK the  ?temple?
map came from Orkogre Castle but I'm really not sure, sorry. Where did you
find the Deadman's dagger, hair, and cloak???  I thought I'd been everywhere
in New City but I havent found that!!

   I've gotten into the "Forbidden Zone".  If you havent been to Nyctalinth I
wouldnt worry about it since I believe you must get a card there.  It is a
good source of experience though when you use the Black Wafer to set off the
alarm.  Beat up on a few groups of those guys and PRESTO!  30,000  experience.
                            Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 27        Mon Oct 12, 1992
PHOTOBASE                    at 20:44 EDT

Jeff if you are talking about the Blueprints, yes and they are gone, is there
something else Im missing?

Sparks

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 28        Mon Oct 12, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 22:11 EDT



 Agent:  Remember the bank in New City with the small cubicle
 with the copper penny in it?  Well that same cubicle has a
 secret button that opens up another small cubicle with a
 treasure chest.


 Sparks: Wunderlund has a key that will allow you to enter
 Old City.  Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean.  The blueprints
 thing I think is just a clue to the whole Old City thing.


 Try to map out Munkharama, but not all characters have sufficient
 swimming skill as yet.  Can't get into all those rooms with
 the goblet/slit thingy.  Dunno what to yell into the well.


 Also mapped out some of Orkogre.  Unable to find keys to get
 into all of the areas.  Got one Throne room key and that's about
 it.  Are there more keys to be found in Orkogre???


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 29        Tue Oct 13, 1992
AGNARI                       at 00:25 EDT

  Jeff that's about where I am.  But I've taked the hours to get everyone to
100 swim skill.  It's about 1 skill per each water square travelled, of course
each also about halfs your stamina and at 0 stamina you die.  So it takes one
or two wades rest till 199 errr make that 100 and then repeat, ad infinitem
[or some such spelled word ;]   Now at 100 swim skills the party can go about
5 or 6 squares those arrows help not turning before somebody dies - think that
the weight carried has an effect on how fast one's stamina goes.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 30        Tue Oct 13, 1992
AGNARI                       at 01:35 EDT

  Ok how about those brass goblets/slots in Munkharama city????  I've gotten 4
coins (diamond, emerald, amber and ruby) but then don't do any thing with the
doors and just disappear down the urns.  I don't see anyway of opening those
doors?  But I've got a sinking feeling that it will take collecting the coins
4 times and dropping them in all four urns,  arrrrgh I hope not anyone got a
clue.

  Also, that well is driving me crazy!!!!!!!!! anyone that solved it come up
with a more logical clue?????????????  PLEASE.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 31        Tue Oct 13, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 08:44 EDT

Ag: I think you need a coin for that well.  What you'll then get is the key to
opening the doors (but don't take me too literally on this).

 Danny
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 32        Tue Oct 13, 1992
A.HALPRIN                    at 17:13 EDT

Some bits of advice-  The boat map will help you with the twisted heads.
After you do a quest for a rogue in the fun house, you will get the right
words to make the professor help you (I don't know if a high level mindread
can ferret that out).
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 33        Tue Oct 13, 1992
SIR-TECH [Todd]              at 18:04 EDT

Use the polished steelplate to get into Murkato's sanctum.  Say "Archive" to
get the key from Wunderland.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 34        Tue Oct 13, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 18:48 EDT

Jeff-
   Thanks for the info on the Deadman's stuff!

Agnari-
    In Munkharama after you put the coins in the urns you have to use the
moonstone from the statue in New City on the statue in the center of the water
in Munkharama.  The clue for this is on the ?Temple? map <no I dont remember
where I found the ?Temple? map!>  I havent gotten the doors open or figured
out what to yell into the well either...
                                  Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 35        Tue Oct 13, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 21:44 EDT

In Munkharama, the only thing I was able to do after putting the coins into
the urns was activate the statue, after that I went down into some dungeon
area and thats where I got stuck. Does anyone know where I am? I went
underground, fought these diseased monks and a leper giant in  ssome blacked
out area, and after getting various keys (I think I opened everything down
there) I end up with a crypt map and Wikums Globe of Power , then I'm lost.
Where are the crypts? By the way I couldn't open the  doors in Munkaharama
either.The only way out of where I am leads to an  area of the forest I havent
mapped, and away from Munkharama.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 36        Tue Oct 13, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 22:14 EDT


 Well, I'm in Orkorge.  I've mapped all I've could, but I all
 I have is a burnished steelplate and bone comb/hair(?)  Where
 do I get more keys to open all those other doors? (Or, do I
 need to explore more outside Orkogre?)


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 37        Tue Oct 13, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 22:29 EDT

D.Savalli-
    I'm still stuck down in the dungeon area!  Where'd you find the crypt map
and Globe of power?? I'm still trudging around down here without any real
purpose...

 Jeff-
   I havent been able to get several doors open either.  The SIR-TECH rep
posted that you could use the steelplate to open the door to Murkatos Sanctum
but I couldnt seem to get it to work.. maybe I'll try again later.
                                  Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 38        Wed Oct 14, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 12:05 EDT

D.BILEK1-
    There are several levels to the dungeon area. There is one spot where you
flick a switch to a door and once walking through are dropped down a  pit,
there is no way to deactivate this at first, but if you search around you'll
find what you need and where to use it. If you go down to a level where you
encounter an EXTREMLY powerful monk you're near the end-somewhat. Many nasty
creatures in the lower levels. I still have no idea where the crypts are,
unless that's where I was. One other thing, in Orkogre is  there anything left
to do after you defeat the wizards ghost and get all the items, or is that all
for there? The one thing I don't like is running back and forth.I have mapped
the whole thing.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 40        Wed Oct 14, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 19:28 EDT



 I'm at an impasse here.  I can't get into anything at Orkogre.
 I can't get into anything at Munkharama due to the fact my
 swimming skills are pathethic.  I've done all I've can at
 New City, and don't really have a clue as to where to go next.


 Hmm.  Let's see.  There's Nyetalinth, Ukpyr, and the Rattkin
 Ruins I've yet to explore...


 Sir-Tech:  Exactly how is the steelplate used to get into
 Murkatos Sanctum???


 Jeff T.



 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 41        Wed Oct 14, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 19:37 EDT

D.Savalli-
   I already killed the Lord of Dark Forest and found the Notched Shaft on the
lower level but I cant find anything to do with it!  I've tried using it on
all the gates not yet unlocked and on the lever that opens ]the gate leading
to the trap I cant get passed... What am I supposed to use this thing on?
Maybe I missed something...I'm going to go back and recheck the level where I
found the notched shaft but could you please let me know where to use it just
in case?
                                Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 42        Wed Oct 14, 1992
AGNARI                       at 19:52 EDT

  Jeff I've got the same problem with O.... castle 5 or 6 grates that I've not
found any keys for [not counting those prison grates on lvl 2] and that
steelplate and combs doesn't seem to be useful anywhere.  So I've headed back
to Munkharama, and yes swim skills take FOREVER since you can only get 1 step
into the water and then back out otherwise you die. Then you have to rest to
restore stamania and repeat process 99 more times - but not to worry as your
skills progress you can go 3, 4 and nearer the end 5 squares swimming before
you must land.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 43        Wed Oct 14, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 20:07 EDT

D.Bilek1-
     If you search around you'll find what looks like a button that can't be
pressed, it's on the level with the trap door. That's where you want to use
the rod. Then you are on your way. I'm still have no idea if I finished that
area or not.
    When you have the Globe of power and the Crypt map are you done with the
area you get zapped by the statue in Munkharama? What is considered the end of
Orkogre, I already got everything from the wizard ghost. I already asked these
things earlier, but I want, I have to continue. Oh the pain of Wizardry
addiction.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 44        Wed Oct 14, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 22:03 EDT



 Where do you guys recommend after aborted expeditions to
 Orkogre and Munkharama????   I've explored some more, and
 found a bunch of Mean ole Ents who moan about some Sacred Grove,
 and found the ruins but didn't feel like scrounging around in
 the Forest.


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 45        Wed Oct 14, 1992
C.MULLER                     at 23:55 EDT

 I'm in the Munk dungeon under the city via the statue etc.  I am just
 past the dark area where the giant leper attacks you.  You have to
 swim a square or two after the dark area to get back on land.
 Anyway, there are a bunch of grates under here that I can't seem to
 open and I have about a million keys none of which works.  Can anyone
 tell me if these can be opened.  If so what key do I need?

 Thanks,

 Chris.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 46        Thu Oct 15, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 18:28 EDT

Chris-
   As far as I know you cant open them.  If you read the previous posts you
will find what you need to do in them.

D,Savalli-
    Thanks for the help!  Finally got the Crypt map and Holy Covenant.  Did
you ever get the other gates in the Temple Area open.  The gate next to the
fountain is the only one I got open... Now I cant find Master Xheng like I'm
supposed to.. AAARRGGHH!!!  Has anybody happened to have stumbled across
him???

                                     Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 47        Thu Oct 15, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 18:36 EDT

D.Bilek1-
    No, I never got the other gates opened, but I did get into there.We are
talking about the area where you can see water beyond the gates right? I think
thats where I got the Globe of Power. I'm now stuck with finding the secret
school and dealing with the Land of Dreams. On second thought, I think maybe
one gate opens, I'm not quite sure, I have to takes notes  and remember so
much in this game it sometimes gets confusing.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 48        Thu Oct 15, 1992
M.HUSTON1 [Mark]             at 19:51 EDT

To those stuck in Orkogre Castle:

The polished steel plate IS what opens the gate to Murkato's Outer Sanctum.
You have to use it on the square where the blood stains and light coming
through the ceiling are.  Face the gate when you use it, and the reflected
light will open it.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 49        Thu Oct 15, 1992
AGNARI                       at 20:48 EDT

  Mark, thanks I know that helps and the other stuck with that same problem
will also find that *hint* <grin> of major help.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 50        Thu Oct 15, 1992
BARAK                        at 21:52 EDT

I think I just finished Orkogre Castle?!? The King gave me a key to open the
area in his bedroom where there is a chest... However, when I opened the
chest, I was told someone had already been there. Is this normal, or is there
something else I should now do in the Castle before trying some- thing
different? Thanks for any help from anyone...
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 51        Thu Oct 15, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 22:24 EDT

    I have no idea why but the polished steelplate is not working for me. I
got to the space with the bloodstains, face the door to Murkatos'  Sanctum and
use the polished steelplate and get no effect.  From the posts here it seems
there should be a beam of light or something I can reflect but I get no
indication that there is any light coming down from the  ceiling-  The only
thing the game mentions is blood on the floor!  Is there something I'm
supposed to do to open the ceiling or something????
                              Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 52        Thu Oct 15, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:29 EDT

  Agent have you considered that outside it might be night and thus no
sunlight could shine thru?  I know I've seen the blood stains once with the
light and once without. Now all I have to do is get back from Munkharama
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 53        Fri Oct 16, 1992
J.KUNCL                      at 01:12 EDT

Hey folks I hate to sound slow,but I'm real confused about the mapping. I just
started tonite and I'm up to lvl 5 but I can't find a mapping kit anywhere.
Would someone please help me and tell me where I can find this this goody!I
hope it is in the New city cause none of my group has one.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 54        Fri Oct 16, 1992
SLEW                         at 01:38 EDT

 I have a little problem I hope someone can help me with...my first party
 was ambushed by ratkins and after killing them they found a key but my
 second (current) party didn't find the key after the ambush. Is this the
 key for the gate under the city? I can't get in there no matter what I
 do. I just started and my people are very wimpy. Is there any where to
 go before New City as I am having a lot of trouble getting past the
 guards (and every time I make a level and _think_ I can defeat them,
 more come!!) I really don't want to start over <sigh> and I especially
 don't want to have to roll up characters again! Someone help please,
 thanks.

 The mapping kit is in the forest hidden in a chest. Head away from
 the New City area and go to the place where you get the encounter with
 the phoots (it's a set encounter..says something about chewing bones
 right before) there's a way to go through the forest after you defeat
 them. Go till you see the water and you should be able to see the chest.
 (I hope this is right..I didn't write it down cause I didn't know the
 map would be in there and I was lost anyway :) to use the map, just pick
 use from the options (the key option on the floor panel) and click on
 the map. It records things you did before you got the map too, which was
 helpful in getting me out of the place I was lost in.

 How much artifact skill do I need before I can assay potions? Thanks!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 56        Fri Oct 16, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 18:47 EDT

Agnari-
    Yeah I thought of that but night/day has no effect on it.  Apparently in
the game that I restored inside Orkogre I had not searched the space  yet.
You only see the light by searching the space and I had stupidly  assumed that
I already had searched it.  Ah well, live and learn.
                               Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 57        Fri Oct 16, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:48 EDT



 Agent:  You must first do a SEARCH on that square with the
 blood stains, and then USE the steelplate, facing the door.
 I too use and re-used that steelplate before thinking to do
 a SEARCH on that square with the bloodstains...


 Slew:  The key obtained from the Rattkin is NOT used to get into
 Old City.  You may want to set the difficulty level to EASY for
 a bit until your chars are up a few more levels.  My Mage has
 an assay skill of about 38 and can generally assay almost anything.
 A low-power Identify spell should do the trick on potions.


 Jeff T.


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 58        Sat Oct 17, 1992
AGNARI                       at 10:27 EDT

  S.S., the key to getting into the Old City lies with getting that professor
rat [Wunderlick???] over in the library to give up the key to you.  I've heard
that if you mention archive to him in the dicussions you might get,
personnally the little snot got huffy with my group over something we said and
HE attacked us.  Thus I just picked the key up as treasure after cleaning his
clock.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 59        Sat Oct 17, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 10:35 EDT



    Finally went thru all that Murkatos Sanctum rooms, and so on.
    Still can't get into the Throne Room, or unlock a number of
    other doors.  Are these areas to come back to later???

    Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 60        Sat Oct 17, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 13:08 EDT

Jeff T-
   I believe that to get into the throne room you have to use some bananas
 next to the cage with the Gorilla in it.  I think the whole area involving
the Gorilla is behind a secret door in case you havent found it.  Anyway this
should let you pull a lever and open up a new area.

D.Savalli-
    Have you figured out what to say to the guy in Munkharama to get him to
tell you where the Secret School is?  The only thing I can get out of him
about the land of dreams is something called the Gran Melange when I say
Palace of Munkharama...  Also, have you gotten the 4 doors in the corners by
the water open in Munkharama?  I figured I'd be able to open them after I got
the Covenant and Globe but no such luck...
                                   Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 61        Sat Oct 17, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 15:25 EDT

What about this Deadman's stuff.  I saw that the shroud was cursed so I sold
it for 750 gps.  Hope the shroud was of no importance.

Otherwise, I hope I'm not screwed!

Just where does one go to even find out about a black market or archive
rumors?

I tried asking all the NPC's in New City about Angus and the old city and none
of them are willing to divulge any useful info or they cannot understand what
I mean.


ARGHH!

Phil



 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 62        Sat Oct 17, 1992
AGNARI                       at 17:51 EDT

  Agent you need to answer the wells question to get what you need to open
those four doors.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 63        Sat Oct 17, 1992
C.KANOLES                    at 20:08 EDT

Help me, please!

Rattkin Ruins: 1.  What do I use on the door to Rudi's Funhouse? 2.  What do I
do at the Thieve's Guild?  I have a Ninja with
    fairly high-level thieving skills, yet I can't satisfy Ratskell's
    requirement.  What do I do???????

Orkogre Castle: 1.  What do I tell the King?  I try to give him the message I
came to
    deliver, but he keeps telling me to leave.  What's up?

I would like fairly explicit answers, so if you don't want to post them,
please write to me at C.KANOLES.  Thanks everyone.  Love this game!

Ziploc
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 64        Sat Oct 17, 1992
B.DUNCAN7 [Brian Duncan]     at 20:17 EDT

        Two Questions:

        1)  I heard that I need to use a Tree that I find in Murkatos' Lair(I
found one there), to get into the Rattkin Ruins, but I can't find where to use
it, TWO areas completely, one that says "The entrance seems to have become
choked by the forest..." the other says something about a gnarled tree in the
shape of a wry grin.  Used the Bonsai tree at both of these to no avail(I used
it from the main display, not from character display.  Any help would be
greatly appreciated.

        2)  WHERE am I supposed to find out that I say (blank) to the Prof?!?
I know the answer(because I read it here), but I want to know how I am
supposed to have found that out, is it by talking to another character or
through reading what Wunderland(?) says?


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 65        Sat Oct 17, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 21:10 EDT



 Ziploc:  Didn't you rescue Capt Boriergard in New City??? He
   tells you to the the King that "Dartaen Alliance is broken"
   or something real close to that.



 Brian:  That Bonsai tree is used on a square in the middle of
 a ruin area that is NOT in the Rattkin Ruins area.  Instead, these
 ruins are off the road not far from Nycalinth (and not on the
 map.)



 I'm in Munkharama.  I've mapped out all the surface area, and
 did some swimming and recovered a White Rubber Bear(?) and that's
 about it.  Now what?  Where are those hidden areas????


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 66        Sat Oct 17, 1992
SLEW                         at 21:19 EDT

 I'm stuck in new/old city. I haven't found much in old city tho I think
 I've been everywhere. I found some armor in a chest and not much else.
 Anyone have any ideas if I am missing something? Does anyone know the
 combo to the lock codex in the jail? I have been trying to figure it out
 logically but it's taking so long. Is there anywhere I can find the
 combination? How do you get into the museum? This game is hard!! Thanks.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 67        Sat Oct 17, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 21:59 EDT

D.Bilek1-
    You have to find the four coins to open the doors, they are near the
statue in the center-if you want me to get more explicit let me know.To find
the secret school you must past through the land of dreams. It all  comes
together. I think I finished Munkharama, I have been through Ukpyr and now I
am in the Rattkin Ruins trying to get into the funhouse. I also have to search
out the T'Rang queen and dust her.  Anyone-
  Are the Rattkin Ruins the ruins the Umpani are talking about when they  send
you off to kill the T'Rang queen? Also, how do you enter the funhouse?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 68        Sat Oct 17, 1992
BARAK                        at 22:00 EDT

This may sound like a dumb question from a very seasoned RPG player, but can
someone tell me what and how the reagents are used in this game. There is no
mention of them in the manual, and I have tried merging, using, etc., all of
the ones I have picked up so far. Do they have a use or are they just
unnecessary extra baggage. Inventory maintenance is a problem in this game
anyway since you can't get rid of special items once they are used. Also has
anyone found out yet the combination for the heads in the Museum in New City.
I am leaving it alone for the present; I figure it must do something to the
Wand to avoid the serious bite you otherwise get in retrieving the stone.
Comments and/or help?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 69        Sat Oct 17, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 22:51 EDT

D.Savalli-
   Ahhh! I can finally help you out since you've been helping me with
Munkharama... The T'rang queen is in Nycalinth, not the Rattkin ruins.  To get
into the Funhouse you need a rubber nose from the thieves guild.  Ask
Bleinmeis about the Funhouse when you talk to him in the thieves guild.   If
you need help getting into the thieves guild just post and I'll give
directions...  I already put the coins in Munkharama into the urns but
somebody previously posted on the board that I need to answer the wells riddle
to get the doors open so I'm working on that now<grin>

Barak-
    The reagents are simply items that when equipped give you slight
immunities to various spells... some are 20% sleep or 10% poison, etc.. Cast
identify on them to find out what spell they protect against.

Brian D.-
    Use the Bonsai tree in the Sacred Grove, not the Rattkin Ruins.  Then you
can enter at the place where the trees grow into a face-shape.
                                     Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 70        Sat Oct 17, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 23:19 EDT



 Nevermind!  After reading the *TEMPLE* map, the whole scheme
 became crystal clear.  Sheesh.   The SW part of the dungeon
 underneath seemingly has encounters every other square..


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 71        Sat Oct 17, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 23:24 EDT



 Slew:  There's a secret button in Old City that opens up another
 area where you find yet another treasure chest with a map.

 Elsewheres in New City, you should find a black wafer with the
 codes on it to solve the Jail codex problem...

 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 72        Sun Oct 18, 1992
SLEW                         at 01:21 EDT

 I found one chest in old city but there was just some armor and an
 amulet in it. Is there another secret button or was I just unlucky and
 didn't get the chest with the map in it?

 I have a black wafer. Sheesh...I didn't think of using it on the codex :)

 Many thanks for all the help so far.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 73        Sun Oct 18, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 09:13 EDT



 Slew:  Did you find the other secret button that is located
 in the same room where you found the Treasure Chest?


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 74        Sun Oct 18, 1992
AGNARI                       at 09:53 EDT

  In the old city part that I've explored there were THREE chests in a row
which ended up being 2, 3, and 4 steps to the west of the entrance to the old
city. The first was behind a grill and the other two were behind a grill and
then a secret door.  What I've seen of the old city reachable from the
comdemened area is merely an 8x16 rectangle area with 1 secret door and 4
grill/gates - unless I missed something.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 75        Sun Oct 18, 1992
SLEW                         at 11:00 EDT

 Ack, no I didn't find those. I'll check again. Thanks!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 76        Sun Oct 18, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 11:55 EDT

D.Bilek1-
   I know where the Thieves Guild is, but they won't let me in. They more or
less laugh at me. How do I enter? I know the answer to the well riddle, if you
want it let me know. At least now I won't run ragged looking for a  T'Rang
queen in Rattkin. By the way is there anything special in Rattkin  I'm
supposed to do, since I really wasn't directed to there, I have just  been
mapping and killing. Now that I'm there I'd like to finish it up  before
heading to Nyctalinth. Just out of curiosity what maps do you have? I only
have the Temple, Dragon, and Crypt maps I'm also being trakked down by Jan-
Ette and her party, I hope I come across her soon, she has a map.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 77        Sun Oct 18, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 12:26 EDT

D.Savalli-
     To get into the thieves guild you have to try to pick Bleinmeis ' pocket.
He is in northeast of the Old Funhouse if you havent found him yet.  Just
select "steal" when you are talking to him.  It doesnt matter what your skill
is, you get caught every time but you get an item you need.  Just wear the
ring when you stick your hand through the thieve's guild window!  Yeah what is
the answer to the well riddle... I've been tearing my hair out over it for
days...
                          Agent oh yeah, I have the Crypt, Dragon, Temple, and
Crystal maps.  I bought
  the Crystal map so I have no idea where to find it.  The only other
  map I have heard of is Legend and that is hidden in old city... I think
  I missed a secret door there so I'm heading back that way to look for it.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 78        Sun Oct 18, 1992
SLEW                         at 14:15 EDT

 Well I found some more chests in Old City but no map. The second chest
 was empty except for some wrappings and said someone had been there first.
 Is that the chest with the map? I can't find any other secret rooms
 --the first chest had an ankh in it and some scrolls if that gives anyone
 an idea of where I am. Are there more chests around besides those 2?

 I _still_ can't get into the jail. I have a black wafer, but I can't
 use it on the door or lock codex and when I look at it I see 2 blue dots
 and one black dot. Is that supposed to be the combo or something? Can
 someone please tell me how to get into the jail. Thanks.

 How come the spellcasters don't gain more than 1 spell a level? It's
 really slow going to get the good spells. Am I supposed to train them
 more or something? Do they ever get to choose more than 1 spell?

 Many thanks.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 79        Sun Oct 18, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 14:28 EDT



 Well, I now need to find Master Xheng, Yell something into the
 well, and get into those four doors in Munkaramadama.  Any
 clues as to the Well Yell, and where the heck is Xheng???

 Slew:  At random, it seems like somewhere a problem is solved
 only to find the map missing and this has happened to various
 people at various places.  I think you may be able to buy that
 map later on.  The Wafer should spell out the code to punch in
 on that jail lock.

 Jeff T>
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 80        Sun Oct 18, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 15:45 EDT

Slew - there are some letters on the wafer which should give you the clue.

Also I could not find any maps either in the old city.  I ran into that same
chest that was already looted.  I heard a rumor that the legend map was hidden
in the Old City but I've been through there and could come up with anything.
It's a pretty small area with no second level.

I have a feeling that the game changes as you progress.  There are probably
time limits built in to find stuff.

Sooner or later I'm sure those maps will turn up.  I just ran into the Gorn
Capt again after I freed him and he told me that the temple map was solved
already.

Since I have no idea where to have looked for the temple map, I'm sure I will
have to buy it from him.

Has anyone given map to an NPC who has another to exchange?
 I keep asking about maps to the NPC's and they keep saying give me a map and
I'll consider...

Well all I have right now is my mapping kit and I refuse to give that up.

Phil

BTW, I'm up to the Orgre Castle.  Anyone know what those buttons do in the
prison cells.  I pretty much have everything but am missing the keys to those
grill gates on the other levels.  All I have is that ring of keys which only
seems to open the prison doors.






 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 81        Sun Oct 18, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 16:05 EDT



 Phil:  One of those buttons in the Prison Cells opens up a pit
 in another cell which takes you to another area...

 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 82        Sun Oct 18, 1992
SLEW                         at 16:26 EDT

 Thanks guys..I'll look harder at the wafer :) Is there any way past
 Lord Gorn (or whatever his name is Galiere?) without having to fight him?
 My party is still only level 8 and having a nasty time against him and
 his warriors even on the easy level :( guess I'll go do something else
 first :)
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 83        Sun Oct 18, 1992
PHOTOBASE                    at 16:30 EDT

Jeff, I have not see Capt Boriergard in New City. Also there is a chest in a
room by the library. When I use the lock icon nothing happens. Neither does
Knock spell. Am I missing something?

Sparks

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 84        Sun Oct 18, 1992
P.GANGI1 [PMG]               at 16:47 EDT

Hi,
 Can anyone tell me where to use the "notched Staff" in Munkharama to go
beyond the Leper pit? Exact location pleased as I've searched enough for all
of us!
 Thanks for any help!
 Paul

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 85        Sun Oct 18, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 17:00 EDT

Agent-
   The word you're looking for is "coin".
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 86        Sun Oct 18, 1992
AGNARI                       at 17:01 EDT

  Paul, there is a lever/grill combo to a 3x3 room with a chute it it; but as
soon as you enter the 3x3 room the floor gives out and you drop down.  Well to
the west of that 3x3 room there was a button like hole in the wall, don't
suppose you've tried using the notched staff while facing the hole?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 87        Sun Oct 18, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 17:24 EDT

 COIN!??!?!? COIN!!!??!?!? I feel really stupid.
                          Agent thanks.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 88        Sun Oct 18, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 17:37 EDT



 Slew:  When you got into the Jail and rescued Capt Boriergard, he
 should have given you a letter that allows passage thru Lord
 Galiere.


 Sparks:  To open a chest, you must be facing it from the front,
 so just turn around a bit until you'll facing the front (I think
 this is your problem.)


 Well, this was interesting:  after coming out of the underground
 Temple area into the forest, I encountered Ratsputin, Mick the
 Pick, Gruntwrapper, and Kymas Turan in rapid succession.
 Ratsputin attacked me, and I got the Legend map off him. I tried
 Peace with Mick, but even though he said he was pleased, he
 attacked me also, and I dusted him off.  Managed to get Kymas
 to talk, and purchased the Fools map off him.  So now have
 the:  Legend, Dragon, Fools, Crypt, and Temple maps.  Instead of
 a ?mapname? though, all the maps have a *mapname* around it.
 Why is this???


 Off to that blasted Well in Munkaramamarmahama.


 Jeff T.



 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 89        Sun Oct 18, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 19:59 EDT

Jeff T-
   Once you start collecting maps the NPC's start following you around.  I
cant hang around in one area too long or I start having endless encounters
with Shritis T'rang, D'rang T'rang, Mick the Pick, Rasputin, Kyras,  Brother
Tshober, Rodan Lewarx, and Lt. Gruntwrapper.  Shritis keeps  attacking me.  I
think I got him angry when I killed another T'rang NPC... oh well.
                               Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 90        Sun Oct 18, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 20:46 EDT

Does anyone know what to do in the Funhouse? I already used the rubber band to
get the fan spinning, and I put the weight on the chain. I also found the
spool handle and used it to wind up the weight, but thats where I deadend. I
have the whole area mapped out, but cannot figure out what to  do. I have been
launced a couple of feet in the air when the weight drops, but that didn't
seem to do anything. I also have a wooden dowel and another stone (lodestone),
but they seem useless so far. Thanks for any help.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 91        Sun Oct 18, 1992
DVANDERSLICE [Gremlyn]       at 20:56 EDT

Ok...I've killed the Lord of the Darl Forest...got the key to good keep...key
to the temple.....I have a staff I cant ID....where do I get the "notched"
staff so I can push the button so I don't go down the shoot?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 92        Sun Oct 18, 1992
SLEW                         at 21:05 EDT

 Oh well it would help if I'd gone and got the guy out of the jail
 <grin>. I'm right now lost somewhere south of Munkanara in the woods
 with some really nasty encounters (every few steps it seems there's
 a new one). My poor level 8 party has been toast a few times. I don't
 think I should be there yet :)

 Thanks for help everyone.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 93        Sun Oct 18, 1992
DVANDERSLICE [Gremlyn]       at 21:30 EDT

Ok...got the onyx key...still no way to avoid the chute...any help?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 94        Sun Oct 18, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 21:59 EDT



 Gremlyn:  You already may have the notched staff if you got it
 out of a 3rd treasure chest on the same level as the Lord of
 the Dk Forest...


 Slew:  Where are you going????


 Did anyone ever join with Xen Xheng and complete the quest of
 the 5 flowers to Ukpyr Mountains???  Is this necessary or just
 another diversion or what???


 After going back to Brother Rulae and telling him about the Holy
 Sacrement, and gaining access to another area below New City,
 there was an empty chest.  Was this chest supposed to contain
 an map, say the Legend Map rumored to be near Old City????



 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 95        Sun Oct 18, 1992
P.GANGI1 [PMG]               at 22:01 EDT

Hi,
 I found the notched place and got under, but I can't open most of the gates.
I got the globe...is that it down here?(Munkharama)The gates in question are
aroung the water. WHich key would I need?
 Paul

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 96        Sun Oct 18, 1992
B.TONEY2 [TOP CAT]           at 22:09 EDT

     Has anybody cast an IDENTIFY spell on the BAG of BONES in the purple bag
with the yellow star?  I sold mine off early in the game before I could
Identify unknowns.  Another item I could have sold off but didn't was the
DEADMAN'S HAIR (which is better than an AMULET of STILLNESS for paralysis
protection).

          This game has got a PoWeR GRIP on me!

                                     Later....

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 97        Sun Oct 18, 1992
SLEW                         at 23:31 EDT

 Looking for Orcogre castle now. Anyone have any idea where it is? Have
 been wandering around the forest searching forever it seems. Is it
 visible or do I have to have that eye thing up?

 Nobody answered my question if ever spellcasters can learn more than 1
 spell per level. Mine sure haven't so far, not even my priest.

 The bag of bones was poison resist, I think (20%?) I'll check it later
 and let you know definitely.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 98        Sun Oct 18, 1992
B.DUNCAN7 [Brian Duncan]     at 23:37 EDT


        Help!!!  I'm stuck in the Funhouse, I think I'm almost finished, all
I've got left(as far as I know) is the glass tube with a hole(don't have
anything to use there), and I have the wood stick with rope(looks like a whip
to me), but I don't know where to use it at.  Also the water trough has got me
running in circles, I assume that when I turn the levers it adjusts how I
slide down, but I can't seem to get it right, any help would be appreciated.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 99        Mon Oct 19, 1992
PHOTOBASE                    at 00:22 EDT

I also did not find a map in Old City and I got the same 16x8 area Aguari got
with 3 secret doors.

I finally got the whole group to the statue and thought for sure I had the
Moon Stone, but I can not find it any where on my party. This happen to anyone
else?

Slew once you get into the prison at New City, Capt.Galiere will give you a
different answer.

Sparks

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 100       Mon Oct 19, 1992
DVANDERSLICE [Gremlyn]       at 00:22 EDT

        I dunno...I even went back and fought the Dark lord again to make
sure...using the staff I get a "no effect" message at the button due west if
the chute.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 101       Mon Oct 19, 1992
C.KANOLES                    at 01:21 EDT

Jeff:  Thanks for the tip, but I did try giving that message to the  king.
But nada, zilch, zero.  Perhaps I'll try re-phrasing it.  I've since left
Orkogre and gone back to try enter the Land of Dreams.  In Munkharama I've
spoken to Brother Moser, and have tried lots of words he said, but no dice.
I'm apparently not ready.

I'm seriously completely addicted, and driving my spouse crazy!

Ziploc
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 102       Mon Oct 19, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 02:54 EDT

Has anyone tried to "Uncurse" and item?

I've noticed that the stores in New City do not offer this.

I also don't know about the Deadman's Shroud.  It was cursed but was it a neat
item?  I sold it already so I don't know.

Anyway, just got through the Okreogre Castle and I never ever want to see a
Spectral Raven or Spirit Guardian ever.  Killing 25 Ravens was just too much
of a frustration.

Well I imagine there a heck of a lot worse creatures than these roaming
around.

So are there any high tech weapons around other than the muskets?

I have a 9th level ninja now and I'm wondering if he does more damage without
a katana or sia(ie. using just bare hands).  Anyone wandering around with a
ninja using no weapons?

Phil

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 103       Mon Oct 19, 1992
T.YEE2 [Freeman]             at 03:39 EDT

Can anyone tell me what I'm supposed to do in the cemetary behind the church
in Nyctalinth?  Haven't figured out how to grab the sceptre.
                                   Thanks,

TY
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 104       Mon Oct 19, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:36 EDT



 Paul:  Have you gotten an Onyx Key???  From looking at my
 maps/notes that's the only key I have noted down in the general
 area you're looking...

 Gremlyn: You don't get the notched staff from fighting the Dark
 Lord.  You get it on the same level in another chest.  There is
 a button in one of those cubicles on the west side that opens
 up a small area reached thru yet another cubicle over on the
 east side.

 Ziploc: Have you yelled into the Well yet?  If not, forget the
 Land of Dreams until you do that.   If you've found the Palace then
 the guy there should give you some words that if mentioned to
 Brother Moser should help you along...

 Samurai:  Try -49- Spectral Ravens!!! Blink In, Blink Out, Blink
 In, Blink Out for seemingly 10 hours before my first guy finally
 got to hit.  My Ninja is bare-handed and does really well.  His
 Hands & Feet skill is at 100.  Still, my Samurai with the
 Murasama Sword does the most damage.  My Lord is kind of
 disappointing, can't find any weapons for him as yet.


 Jeff T.



 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 105       Mon Oct 19, 1992
DVANDERSLICE [Gremlyn]       at 19:11 EDT

        Please...does anyone recall where they found the notched staff? I've
killed the Lord of the Dark Forest twice, and examined, I think, every square
inch down here. A games counselor at Sir Tech told me to "look for a button".
I can't find anymore. I've opened 6 chests, none of which had that
staff.....HELP
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 106       Mon Oct 19, 1992
B.TONEY2 [TOP CAT]           at 19:13 EDT

Slew:  I knew I shouldn't have sold that bag of bones!  Five out of Six of my
characters are magic users (Level 10 now) and I have never gotten more than 1
new spell per level gain.  To get to Orkogre Castle, head East out of New City
and turn LEFT at the 1st fork in the road and travel to the spot where Galiere
and his men block (or did block) the North heading road.  From there, Orkogre
is West 21 and North 12, down a ladder...

Phil:  I have a 10th level Monk who uses just his hands (and feet!)
 and is one mean killing machine.  He does 20-35 points of damage each hit and
gets 6 attacks per round.  He accounts for 48% of my
 group's MKS!  When running thru character generation at the start of the
game, I rerolled until I got 18 bonus points for each guy.  It took me about 6
hours.  On my last man, I just couldn't get a decent bonus, then WHAMO! - a
bonus of 25!!!  And so my Monk was born.

                                             TC.

P.S.  My lizardman fighter has been using a halberd for a while now - pretty
nice weapon - does 1 to 10 points of damage - but.. well...
 is there anything else a little better out there to look foreward to?

P.P.S.  I found the *Dragon* Map in the 3rd chest in the original
 8 X 16 square Old City, and Lore rumors still say the ?Legend? Map is hidden
near Old City.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 107       Mon Oct 19, 1992
AGNARI                       at 19:51 EDT

Gremlyn I think I got the knotted staff once I fell thru the pit and ran into
a monk who had been there for ages.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 108       Mon Oct 19, 1992
BLUE.GHOST                   at 20:25 EDT

Slew, if you want more spells change Professions of your characters at 8th to
10th level. If you have a Valkyrie change to a Lord, they both are Priests. Or
a Mage to a Bishop. You will go back to level one charcaters, but you will
pick up most of the spells you didn't get. Don't change all of your characters
at one time. They will catch up fast. Save your characters to another save
game first, if you don't like the outcome.


                             Ghost
                             ~~~~~
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 109       Mon Oct 19, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 20:30 EDT

D.Savalli-
   I dead-ended on the funhouse too.  I headed back to Munkharama to finsih up
there.  I did find the Legend map if you want to know where that is...

    What's the point of the bean's in Munkharama?  No matter what I do I keep
getting the spinner in the middle to come up black/white/white/white. I
explored everything I could in the Palace and got a pipe and a  mysterious
pastille reagent.  I didnt find Xheng though.  What am I  supposed to tell
Brother Moser to lead me to xheng?
                                    Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 110       Mon Oct 19, 1992
SLEW                         at 21:42 EDT

 Ghost thanks! I'll try that. This game is so much fun..I'm really
 addicted already and my party is _still_ level 8/9. I'm in Orkogre now
 and really enjoying it.

 Ya my monk is incredible too. He has 100 in hands and feet and does
 awesome damage. My dracon ranger is a definite asset too he can do
 20+ damage to around 5 creatures with the breath.

 Thanks for the clues everyone
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 111       Mon Oct 19, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 22:26 EDT



 Has ANYONE been on the 5 Flowers quest for Xen Xheng to the
 Ukpyr Mountains????  In no rush to try and finish this game,
 I've decided to go that way, and found a cave in the Mountains.
 Even at the EASY setting for my level 11 characters, it's no
 picnic up in these Mountains...   Found one of the 5 flowers
 but it's WAY up on a cliff and my Climbing skills are too
 pathethic (*SIGH*) to get up there....  Oh well, at least a
 whole new area to explore that isn't a Dungeon or a City....


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 112       Mon Oct 19, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 23:19 EDT

AGENT-
    You have to keep doing the bean thing until you come up with all black on
the spinner. It took me forever to do it. The best thing to to is get all the
beans and save it, so that you don't have to keep going up from the pit,
recover the beans and try again. I think it allowed me to get to the area
where the Land Of Dreams is, although I'm not sure. Anyway, the way to Xheng
is through the Land Of Dreams. Thanks for the offer on the ?Legend? map, but I
already got it by way of a foolish T'Rang. I'm still deadended on the
funhouse, if I don't get any clues on it I just might head over to  Nyctalinth
to deal with the T'rang.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 113       Tue Oct 20, 1992
R.ROYCE [Randy]              at 00:20 EDT

 Well, I just had four days off from work, and all I did was eat, sleep
 and play Crusaders.  Jeesh, I need to get a life  :)


 Randy
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 114       Tue Oct 20, 1992
PHOTOBASE                    at 00:26 EDT

Phil, my level 9 ninja is just punching and kicking his way. It worked fine in
Bane. He does not do as much damage per turn, but he sure gets a lot of turns!
Oh how I love those Critical hits.


Sparks
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 115       Tue Oct 20, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 03:28 EDT

Just how does one get enough gold around here?

It's so tough just trying to get money that I'm forced to pawn everything off.
Now that I enlisted in the Scouts, I can't afford the 8000GPs to pay for all
that equipment.

Anyone know of a short cut to get the stuff from the supply depot in Ukpyr?

I went straight from Orkoogre castle to Ukpyr since all the other areas near
New City were so tough.

Is there a proper sequence from New City after you finish that area?
 Orkogre castle is done but my party of 9th level characters can't really take
on much after that.

Phil

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 116       Tue Oct 20, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 03:43 EDT

Thanks and yes i love those Crit hits.

So far I have an 9th level Samurai and Ninja.  However my Kirujitsu is only
around 19 or 20 or so.  They get really poor points in academia every time
they go up in levels.

Still trying to get my priest to lord level but can't. ARHG!

Phil

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 117       Tue Oct 20, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 05:55 EDT

ARGH. I need money..Bad...

I've noticed one thing about this game.  Creatures don't have GP's everytime
you kill them.  Unlike the first Wizardry.

Too bad.  If I had a gp for every monster I have killed so far, I'd be rich.

Phil

HELP!!! Any treasure chest lying around.


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 118       Tue Oct 20, 1992
DVANDERSLICE [Gremlyn]       at 14:05 EDT

 now I,m finally downstairs......guess I can go eat now....
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 119       Tue Oct 20, 1992
AGNARI                       at 18:13 EDT

  What is with the spinner, got black, black, black, black on the second
attempt over in Munkharama, but I don't notice any [or possibly too little to
notice] in the layout of the levels and no access to anything new.  Did get
some cash and a 2000 point bonus though for getting it to come up b/b/b/b.
What gives, is that all there is? to the spinner?????
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 120       Tue Oct 20, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 19:15 EDT



 Agnari:  I also got that B/B/B/B on the spinner.  Also, go back
 in later and all those beans are back in those cubicles, allowing
 you to again, I presure spin again..  Haven't the slightest idea
 what this bean receptables/spinner thing is for.


 Anyone:  Plea #105, r.e., Ukpyr Mountains.  I'm in the Cave with
 the underground river.  Found a lever in the southern part
 of this Cave that opened up another passage.  From this
 passage across the water to the other side, I can see another
 trail.  I -CANNOT- get across the water to that trail because
 of the strong current.  How do you cross this water???  In
 addition, I found a cliff with a yellow flower on top, and
 evidently my party climbing skills are too meager to allow
 me to successfully grab that flower.  How do you increase
 party climbing skills????


 Well, dead-ended in the Ukpyr Mountains.  Time to move on,
 I suppose...


 Jeff T.

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 121       Tue Oct 20, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 20:06 EDT

   Well I'm still stuck in Munkharama.  I guess it is time to head over to
Dionysceus since that's the only city I havent been to yet.  I still cant seem
to find Xheng even though I got b/b/b/b on the spinner.  Does the smoking pipe
have anything to do with it?  I merged it with the mysterious vermillon but
the only place I seem to be able to use it is through the black door (where
you arent supposed to go).  I suppose if I go to  Dionysceus and then come
back something might occur to me.

D.Savalli-
   Dont expect to find the T'rang Queen until you finish the Rattkin Ruins.
Apparently there is something you need to do in there someplace that allows
you to find some stairs in the Livestock Pen in Nyctalinth.
                                   Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 122       Tue Oct 20, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 21:39 EDT



 Agent:  The pipe/mixture combination IS used once you go thru
 the black door, and then you'll meet Xen Xheng...


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 123       Tue Oct 20, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:08 EDT

  Haven't seen the black door, but all that don't go beyond the door sure
ensured I'd have a save and then OPEN the door.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 124       Tue Oct 20, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:51 EDT

  Well I once again missed the exact wording and now am stumped without
assistance. That phrase Brother T'Shober(??) gave me to give to Brother Xen
Xhang and help out there??  It was something like
  "Be thankful you have an ear"
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 125       Tue Oct 20, 1992
DVANDERSLICE [zen]           at 23:41 EDT

AGNARI: Be thankful ye that hath an ear.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 126       Wed Oct 21, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 11:59 EDT

AGENT-
    You have to smoke the pipe after the first vision beyond the black door ,
after that you will be teleported right to Xhangs front door. You're right
about the Queen, she sends me right back to Rattkin. Does it make any
difference if I accept or deny that one T'Rangs request to help him fight the
Umpani? I would prefer not to assist. After all this playing, the only
complaint I have is the constant dogging by the NPCs. Seems like every few
steps I'm running into someone.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 127       Wed Oct 21, 1992
AGNARI                       at 16:26 EDT

  D.S., I've got two other MAJOR complaints, but they are at best trival to
minor [especially if you compare it to the complaits about OTHER games
released this year]:
   1)  These LONG page after page dialogue descriptions you have to wade thru
repeatedly every time you enter a place.  Nice the first two or three times,
but a real drag the 4th thru 100th time you enter the
BlackMarket/Inn/Paluke's/ect.
    2) Talking to NPC's and coming out of the exit the mouse is left right on
top of steal.  If you've got a sticky mouse or fat fingers you can end up
taking an option not desired.
   3) forgot now but it was a variant along the lines of 1 or 2.
    4) How about some kind of NPC text file for those EXACT wordings needed
that scrolled off the screen before we released much later that exact
spellings were necessary?

  Ok so my count to two is a little top heavy.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 128       Wed Oct 21, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 17:58 EDT

AGNARI-
  I have to agree on the exact wordings part, I was ripping my hair out  over
the "have - hath" wording at the Secret School.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 129       Wed Oct 21, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 18:22 EDT

D.Savalli-
   I didnt help Shritis kill the Umpani either.  I got fed up with the T'rang
and cleaned out most of Nyctalinth.  In my opinion I'd guess that being
friends with the Umpani is a lot more useful than being friends with the
T'rang.  Right now I'm trying to find the Queen's egg room so I can blow it up
with my Thermal Pineapple.
                             Agent Thanks about the pipe, I guess I just wasnt
patient enough.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 130       Wed Oct 21, 1992
SLEW                         at 19:37 EDT

 Ag, if you hit escape a couple of times after the first part of the
 message comes up, it cancels the rest of the message. This doesn't work
 with the long winded npc's though, but you can sometimes get them to
 stop talking with it. I agree with the steal being too close to talk and
 trade..also lore should be on the other side since I hit that one
 accidentally and gave all my info to Lord Galiere :( Great game in every
 other respect and no bugs so far (except for an intermittant problem
 with my mouse every so often)!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 131       Wed Oct 21, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 21:15 EDT

How do you get into the Umpani detache in New City?

I have the dispatch for Leworx inside and I can't seem to get in.
 I tried waving my badge in front of the window as well as the orders for the
Umpani inside.

My orders tells me that I can get in but can't.

My badge and other documents from the Umpani Sgt. doesn't help. Where is the
key then?

Phil

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 132       Wed Oct 21, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 21:25 EDT

I did some scouting and decided to kill all the Trang I ran into. Helping the
Umpani is probably a better bet since I think the TRang are untrustworthy.

The first mission the Trang gave me was to infiltrate Ukpyr and find out the
location of the Umpani ship.  They offered me 10000 gps. Since I killed them,
the Umpani gave me 5000gp plus another 750 for finding them in the forest.

Anyone else decided to side with the Trang?

Well I found the money to buy the equipment but I'm really ticked that almost
none of my people can wear the flak jackets and that it really isn;t that
great of armor.  I have stuff better than that.

Gee for 8000gps, I really didn't get anything useful.  My guns are ineffective
also.

My people can't seem to load the guns and fire them during combat. Do you have
to have skills better than 10 or what in firearms?

It looks like I'm going to have to practice at the range far more often than I
wish.  It's way to costly too.


Phil



 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 133       Wed Oct 21, 1992
L.EIERDAM [Lee]              at 22:09 EDT

Help Please.
 How do I get into the livestock pen? I've tried the only two finger rods that
I have been able to find. I found them in the Security Station. Where do I
find the right key?
 Thanks
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 134       Wed Oct 21, 1992
SLEW                         at 23:23 EDT

 Help! I'm stuck in orkogre castle (still). I have 3 keys but nowhere
 to use them. I have a pewter key (that I can't remember where I got) an
 iron key and an azure key I got out of the chest after killing the
 spectral ravens (and sheesh what an awful battle that was. I had to
 resurrect my mage :( ) I went back upstairs and tried the new key on
 three of the gates I know that I couldn't open...Throne Room and the
 one in a secret room with a treasure chest visible behind it. I also
 can't get by Gigantica (or whatever the name is) the giant ape. I can't
 get past the glass to pull the lever.

 Does anyone know what gates I might have missed? I can't find any other
 ones tho I didn't explore that much on the lowest level (after the pit)
 cause I climbed straight up the ladder after the spectral ravens and
 can't get back down that way (dumb..a one way ladder :) and I don't really
 want to take all that damage with the pit again if I can help it. So,
 does anyone know where I can use the keys or where I can get the keys for
 the places I can't get into? Much help would be appreciated.

 Also how to break the glass by Gargantua the ape. Thanks.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 135       Wed Oct 21, 1992
E.LARGE [Merkin]             at 23:25 EDT

Help SIR TECH....!!!!! SOmewhere along the way my group's Thermal
Pinneapple Disappeared. I never used it and I never droped! It just  vanished.
The problem is that the only save I have with the item is 7  levels of
experience back and maybe 30 hours of my free time! Am I screwed without this
item? And if so is there any possible solution other than  replaying all that
time.??? And/or is there some bug that caused this to happen. I am loathe to
repeat all that I have done since then! Please Help .....

Merkin
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 136       Thu Oct 22, 1992
S.BAKER26 [V'ger]            at 01:05 EDT

Samurai,

        The muskets are QUITE useful. If you do an identify on them, you will
see that they can do 24+ points of damage AND they can crit. The trick is that
you give a musket and ONE target to each character that you wish to have that
skill and let them shoot at the target ONCE. That will give you a skill of
one. You can then blaze away at monsters where ever you find them. In order to
load your musket, take the powder and shot and merge that with the musket. You
will then have the musket "in mouse" as it were. Now, put the musket over the
hands on the suit of armor and click to equip. Select secondary. Muskets are a
one hand weapon and may be used as a secondary weapon. I generally only fire
once for each character per combat, but that usually gets three badguys with
foru shots. I then reload after combat. Your skill will rapidly climb. My
first two characters now have skills in the high fifties.


                                First rank, FIRE!
                                ADVANCE!

                                V'ger gone
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 137       Thu Oct 22, 1992
C.WILLIAMS55                 at 01:12 EDT

Gentlemen start your engines! help is on the way! -to gain access to the black
market at the ARMS OF ARGUS just say
 "black market" ITS THAT SIMPLE! -yes kill the RATTKIN professor to get the
OLD CITY access key (its the
 only way besides its fun)<G> -to get into the sanctum of MURKATOS at ORKOGRE
CASTLE you must have the
 polished silver plate that you find under a twig filled mattress on a
 different level. 1st..search the blood stained area 2nd..stand on the
 blood facing the gate 3rd..use the polished plate..the gate opens! -you need
a "BUNCH O'BANANNAS" to get the ape to open the glass portal
 so you can use a switch that open a wall section in the hall near the thro
 throne room gate where there is another switch to open the throne room
 gate. -tell the king that the "DARTAEN ALLIANCE IS BROKEN"

 Well thats enough for you guys now...ask away..and if I know the anwer I'll
get back to ya!  Oh, and by the way..
  ARE YOU TIRED OF BEING SPAT UPON BY PASSING MOTHRAS?
  DO YOU LIKE IT WHEN YOU GET PUT DOWN BY THE T'RANG?
  ARE YOU BEING HARRASED BY EVERY PASSING UMPANI?
  IF SO YOU NEED "CHEAT.LZH" FROM -RDMN- SOFTWARE!!
  DONT BE THE 95 POUND WEEKLING IN YOUR DIMENSION!!
  WORK-OUT! PUMP IRON!! GET IN SHAPE!! THEN GET THE
  "CHEAT.LZH" CHARACTER EDITOR FOR CRUSADERS OF THE
  DARK SAVANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  DOWNLOAD IT HERE FROM THE GAMERS LIBRARIES!!!!!!!

 LATER,
   C.WILLIAMS
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 138       Thu Oct 22, 1992
C.WILLIAMS55                 at 01:40 EDT

AND ANOTHER THING...

 -the only way into the T'rang and Umpani embassies in NEW CITY
 is to go to their home bases (i.e. Nyctalinth for the T'rang and
 Ukpyr for the Umpani)
 -IMPORTANT- not all cursed items are bad!!!! I have a NECROMANTIC
 helm that allows me to see into the spirit world on occasion (I
 just cant take it off<G>
 -IMPORTANT-if you find the AXE OF MANY RUN leave it alone!!!!
 it sucks your hit points up and a REMOVE CURSE spell wont get rid of
 it!!
 -the LOCATE PERSON spell comes in very handy!
 -the WIZARspell can be very useful!
 -Keep in mind that D.W.Bradley's favorite character is the SAMURAI
 they are excelent fighters and they cast spells like a mage!
 -Spell casters that use the MAGE spellbook get a spell later on called
 NUCLEAR BLAST (wow what a spell)!
 around 14th level though!
 -when you find SPELL BOOKS (treasure items) don't scribe them into your
 characters spells..if your spellcaster has a good SCRIBE skill level
 you can USE them in combat like a scroll without using up your spell
  points!  and they work more than once!

thats all for now, C.WILLIAMS

PS: has anyone gotten into the LAND OF DREAMS at MUNKARAMA? I cant figure out
how to get in!!(believe it or not!<G>) PPS:for those of you that download the
CHEAT.LZH character editor..
   the creators of that file said that registered users will recieve
 an item editor that they are working on now!!  Just remember that
   there are maximums for each editable stat and going above them will
   make your save file unreadable by the game!!!!!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 139       Thu Oct 22, 1992
C.WILLIAMS55                 at 01:46 EDT

OOPS!
 in my last message its the AXE OF MANY RUNES!!!
 And "WIZAR" refers to the WIZARDS EYE spell

Most Grammatically yours, C.WILLIAMS
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 140       Thu Oct 22, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 11:56 EDT

  Is there any way to stop NPC's from bothering you other than killing them ,
I cant' take more than 15 or so steps without bumping into someone. It's quite
annoying when two Umpani, Jan-Ette, and two munks are dogging your  every
step. It's really beginning to take away from the game since I'm  having a
heck of a time mapping with them around.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 141       Thu Oct 22, 1992
T.KRZMARZICK                 at 18:58 EDT

In New City, Where do I find the combination to get the guy out of jail. Where
is card to open the door across the street from the constabulary? I have a
black key card but it doesn't work. What is the combination of the devil
heads,imp etc. in the oddities place?> I am afraid if I leave there I won't
get back in because I don't have another copper coin.  Anyonw who can help
Thanks!!!
                                             T. Krzmarzick
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 142       Thu Oct 22, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 19:05 EDT



 D.Savalli:  For sure all those NPCS are annoying as all heck.
 I'm in the Fun House, and every time I turn around I have to
 wait on Gruntswrapper(?), Rhallick, Xen Xheng, Kymas Turan,
 and Brother Tshober.  I killed Mick the Pick, D'rang T'rang,
 and Ratsputin(?) out of sheer frustration, else, 8 NPCS tagging
 along is just too much.


 Does -anyone- have the slightest ideas as to how large this game
 is as compared to BoCF?


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 143       Thu Oct 22, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 19:10 EDT




 T.K:   Jail:  Take a look at that black card you've been lugging
 around!   You won't be able to get into the other door until
 much later.  Solving the twisted heads problem requires a certain
 map I believe, and I've yet to discover it, I'm pretty sure
 you'll find it much later in the game.


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 144       Thu Oct 22, 1992
BARAK                        at 19:24 EDT

Someone mentioned a character editor that is supposedly available in the
library. I just checked and can't find any such file. Does anyone know what
happened to it or was it just a fig-newton of someone's imagination?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 145       Thu Oct 22, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 19:47 EDT

    I've found that if you have numerous NPC's following you around it is
probably best to vacate the area for a while.  When you return you will have
some time before they catch up with you.  It is REALLY annoying when 6 NPC's
are dogging your every step.

    I'm currently on the quest for the 5 flowers.  Ive run into a cave with a
large water-area but I keep getting dragged under.  I pulled a  lever but the
current is still too strong.  Anybody know how to get past?
                                 Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 146       Thu Oct 22, 1992
AGNARI                       at 20:48 EDT

  Barak, the editor is still hidden till a sysop checks it out.

  Jeff, I blv that Todd mentioned a figure about 6 times larger then BoCF; but
that could have been some hype he got from a marketing type.

  Agent, I'm on that same quest and I have 3 flowers or did when I shut down
last night [haven't had time to play tonight yet] and I don't see a way around
those water drag unders either. Also the mountains seem to dead end with the
only option of returning to Ukypre or the cave. However one mountain wall had
a notice about it being unscaleable - so I expect with something it will
evenutally lead elsewhere.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 147       Thu Oct 22, 1992
C.WILLIAMS55                 at 21:44 EDT

BARAK,
   Sorry about the character editor thing I had just uploaded it when  I
posted that message.  It will be available as soon as it it approved by the
the system operators.

 -as far as getting the guy out of the jail look on the far left
 wall when you enter the jail area of the constabulary there should be a
 key.

 -this game is so much larger than BANE that its not even funny!

 -dealing with NPC interuptions is just a fact of life!  But dont kill all
 all of them some are very helpful.

 has anyone found SKY CITY home of the flying biker babes yet?  and I still
havent been able to get into THE LAND OF DREAMS in MUNKARAMA... HELP!
   later,
   C.WILLIAMS
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 148       Thu Oct 22, 1992
C.WILLIAMS55                 at 21:52 EDT

AGNARI,

 I have all five flowers but who are they for?  I collected them because i knew
someone would want them.  north of the UNSCALABLE mountain section is a
climbable area and if I remember correctly it takes you to the  home of the
GIANTS!  North of that is a path to a 4 tier mountain where the witches are,
you will come to a spot with a vine attached to a rock dont climb down there
you cant! you just fall and die..you need to find som some vines to tie to the
rock, climb down and search a wall, there you will find the names of the
witches.  You have to know them to complete that area.

 still trying to get into LAND o'DREAMS,
  C.WILLIAMS
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 149       Thu Oct 22, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:13 EDT

 C.Williams, you have to have visited the land of dreams and met up with
Brother ...... [notes on the other side of the room] in Munkharama to know who
want's the 5 flowers.  Of course the key to getting into the land of Dreams is
held by brother Moser in the apothecary.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 150       Fri Oct 23, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:47 EDT



 What is the secret to this blasted *#$*&#$ing Funhouse!!!!

 I have a wooden dowel, a painted ball, and a bar with rope..

 I stuck the dowel into a hole but nothing happens.  I threw
 the ball at the painted bull-eyes target and got BULLS-EYE.

 So what's with the bar and ropes????  And what do I do now!!!!

 I haven't figured out what to do with the transparent dome
 with the hole in it...

 Arrrgggh.  Plus, after throwing that ball, I went back to
 the corridor with the target and the blasted target was back
 there again!  But, now, NO ball!


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 151       Fri Oct 23, 1992
J.LEWIS7 [Argus]             at 20:15 EDT

Jeff, Im just starting this game, but in my quest for knowledge I have been
scanning messages everywhere I can about this game. I dont know  most of the
answer for you, but think about where the rope goes to up above. (next level
up).   Hope this helps until someone who knows  more can answer you.
                   Argus
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 152       Fri Oct 23, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 20:47 EDT

Jeff T-
   Well, you are further into the Funhouse than me!  All I did was attach a
rubber band to two hooks and put a weight and a rope on some gadget with a
plank.  Then when I stand on it I am hurled four feet into the air and take
damage.  Where do you get the rubber ball???
                            Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 153       Fri Oct 23, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 21:01 EDT

Agent-
  You have to buy the feather weight potion from that rat that has the  store,
I can't remember his name, he is outside the funhouse area. You have to use
the potion at the plank, then you'll get hurled where you  need to be. I can't
figure out what to do with the bar and rope either, plus now that I have the
ball I can't find the area with the target. I slowed down on playing because
the NPC's are driving me crazy. I can't go more than a couple steps without
them on my tail.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 154       Sat Oct 24, 1992
L.EIERDAM [Lee]              at 03:25 EDT

   Does anyone have any idea what to do in the Dane Tower after you reach
'LORD DANE' status? All I seem able to do is find an exit teleporter and a
four space hallway with fireballs every move(Which by the way magic screen
does NOT help with), beyond the hall is a chest with some cool armor and a
book with instructions about some pit. But how do you get to the pit, or get
by the Dane orgy without taking so much damage(My mage has only 33 hp and gets
dusted EVERY time)?

  Also, is there anything to do in the funhouse after you attach the weight
and rubberband? Flying four feet is not my idea of a good time... I had an
idea that perhaps a levitation spell might help, but my mage doesn't happen to
have one and is 200,000 exp away from the next level.


  Thanks...
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 155       Sat Oct 24, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 09:10 EDT




  If any of you guys played BoCF, then you remember the infamous
  mines (up here, down over there, etc)!  Well, welcome to the
  FunHouse!  I have it pretty well mapped out but can't figure
  out where the bar/ropes comes in!

  D.Savali:  The exit to the level with the target is on the same
  level with the exit down to see Don Barlone.  More specically,
  this exit is one square diagonal to the north (look at the map!)
  from the "troughs" exit.


  Agent:  The painted ball in is the room you get sent to when
  you take the "Troughs" exit.  This exit is one the same level
  as to where you go when you are catapulted via the rubber band
  gadget.


  Well, the NPCs are also driving me nuts in the Funhouse so I'm
  heading out to try and shake them off.  NOTE:  Isn't it
  ridiculous (or poor programming) that these NPCs can seemingly
  follow you everywhere in the Funhouse!  Once I solved the
  rubber band thingy and was hurled upwards 2 levels or so, I
  took my first step forward and those blasted NPCs where right
  there waiting for me!


  Jeff T.

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 156       Sat Oct 24, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 14:15 EDT

J.Thomas69-
       I still can't find the target. I am on the level with the trough,do I
stay on this level, or step on the trough? Going has been slow because of the
NPC's, I had to fight that 9 foot tall T'Rang. I'm glad that I don't have to
do that twice. Anyway it seems as if I am going in circles in the  funhouse. I
would like to finish as much as I can before going back to  Nyctalinth to get
what the Don wants.One other thing, do you know what to  do do with the glass
dome with the hole? Thanks.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 157       Sat Oct 24, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 16:05 EDT

DD.Savalli-
    The target is down some stairs on the level with the trough.  To get to
the stairs start at the trough and go W,N,N,N,N,N,N,E,E,E,S,S,E,E,S,E
,E,S,E,E,S,S,W,W,W,W,W,W,W,N,W and you should be at the stairs.(If my map is
accurate).
   Did you complete the Quest of the 5 Flowers?  I've got 3 of them but cant
find the other two.  I mapped out the whole area north of Ukpyr and cant find
any way to proceed except through a cave or maybe at one place that says there
is un unscaleable mountain wall in front of me.  I figure there has to be a
way by but I dont know what it is!
                               Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 158       Sat Oct 24, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 16:25 EDT



 D.Savalli:  If you do a USE on that journey map, then the ladder
 to the painted target area is one square NE of the square where
 the "troughs" square is.  To get to that ladder, you go N from
 the square before the troughs square until you reach the end
 of this corridor, then go E 3 squares then turn right and make
 your way thru the area with a bunch of one square columns to the
 SE where there is that long corridor that snakes back W to a
 ladder at the very end.  That ladder takes you to the painted
 target area.

 I went to Nycalinth to get Don Barone what he wanted, and am back
 in the Fun House to try and figure this thing out.  I have a
 painted ball, wooden dowel, and bar with ropes, and that transparent
 dome, hole in wall, and painted target left to figure out.  I
 have to believe all these objects and locations have something to
 with one another.

 Another reason I went to Nycalinth was to try and disperse those
 NPCs.  However, they stayed put and were still there when I
 returned to the Fun House.  Moreover, that Shritis dude joined the
 party.  Now, I have 6 NPCs bumbling around the big level of the
 Fun House....


 Also, returning back to Don Barone, he wants 40,000 pieces of gold
 if I want his treasure/articfacts that he is leaving behind.
 Sheesh.


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 159       Sat Oct 24, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 17:19 EDT

Agent-
  I can't help you with the 5 flowers, I skipped that for now. J.Thomas69-
   The wooden dowel gets put in the hole in the wall, and you have to  throw
the ball at the target that I'm trying to get to. As for the other stuff, I
have no idea, I'm in the same boat as you.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 160       Sat Oct 24, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 17:19 EDT

Jeff T-
    Use the wooden dowel in the hole in the wall.  It says nothing happens but
I'm pretty sure thats what you do.  Just throw the wooden ball at thew target
then jump into the trough again!  A gate opens and you are thrown through it.
The only thing left I havent figured out is the Dome.  If you figure it out
let me know. thanks,
                             Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 161       Sat Oct 24, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 19:01 EDT

 Agent-
   How do I find out the combination for the switches that I assume open  the
transparent wall that is in the area after the target? Also the stick with the
rope goes across a pit found beyond the target. I would ask for  the
combination outright, but I have a feeling it isn't the same for  everyone. I
STILL havent figured out the dome either, but I think I finally ditched the
NPCs. Thanks for anything.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 162       Sat Oct 24, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 19:13 EDT



 D.Savalli/Agent:   I also found out by throwing that ball,
 hitting the target, and then going down the trough a second
 time puts one on the level with all the switches with the
 transparent wall.  Also placed that dowel into the hole with
 the same nothing happens result.  I've been dashing to and
 fro from everywhere back to the transparent dome, and no
 dice.  Still also haven't figured out a use for the bar
 with ropes.  Have either of you found out what to do with
 this thingy???


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 163       Sat Oct 24, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 20:36 EDT

J.Thomas69
   I layed the bar/rope across a pit on the level you get to by going onto the
trough after hitting the target. All that I have been able to do with that is
climb down and up it. I still need to figure out the combo for the switches.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 164       Sat Oct 24, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 21:38 EDT



 D.Savalli:  It that's the case about the bar/ropes, then I
 wonder if it was just a means by which one could climb up
 and down at the pits area to retrieve the painted ball until
 the target was struck with a bulls-eye.  Those pits lead down
 to the same room in which the painted ball was originally
 located.   Still stuck on the switches myself...   not to
 mention the transparent dome.


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 165       Sat Oct 24, 1992
B.BUNN1 [Brian]              at 22:01 EDT

Hello all,
  I'm on a mission for the Umpani to bring a message to the Umpani General  in
New City. However, I can't get into the Umpani Detache because its  locked.
I've tried Knock-Knock spells but they don't work.  Can someone please tell me
how to get in so I can complete this mission?

                                     Thanks,
                                        Brian
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 166       Sat Oct 24, 1992
C.FREAS                      at 22:07 EDT

 I need some help with Munkharama and hope some one can help. So far I have
gotten the coins form the well, opened the four doors, pulled the levers etc.
Found The beans and put them in the cups and explore what appears to be an
empty dungeon. I need to no what to say to moder to get the clue to the dream
land and what to do at the statue and any other hints that would be salient.
Thanks c.

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 167       Sat Oct 24, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:34 EDT

  Brian when I had that task it was after giving the tracker L... the order
not to hunt down the T'Rang assassin [which he completely ignored], and the
General was in the Umpani City NOT in New City. That tracker guy was the one
over in New City - of course you could be way ahead of me and on a completely
different mission.

  Beans, I'd put the four beans in the four urns and then SAVE. Now go in and
pull the spinner. If it doesn't come up Black/B/B/B restore as that is the one
that gives 2 or 5,000 exp points and I'm not sure if it opens anything new in
the city - maybe just a doorway from one area you knew about to another that
now merely shortens the trip but nothing significant.

  Brother Moser in the Apothcary has the words needed to get into the Dream
Lands rope ladder, look at what he says and then visit the dream lands area.

  Statue, is a two stage problem. First you need the moonstone from NewCity -
you did search that statue in the center of the pond south  of the temple
didn't you?  Next you will need the 4 gem coins found by searching those 4
ponds around the statue.  Now if you put those coins in the urns surrounding
the pond/lake and then go back and USE the moonstone at the statue you will be
transported beneath the city.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 168       Sun Oct 25, 1992
B.BUNN1 [Brian]              at 01:45 EDT

AGNARI, Regardless of the mission, how did you get into the Umpani Detache in
new city?  I can't believe the Umpani Sgt. would send me on this  mission
without a key to the door. Also, all my characters are around 8th or 9th level
and I have not found any of the special maps in this game.  Too late in
Orkogre, etc.  Is there a time limit on this game?

                                     Thanks,
                                        Brian
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 169       Sun Oct 25, 1992
AGNARI                       at 03:04 EST

  Brian didn't the Sgt give you a whommper [some such thing] pass or control
card?????   Checking my map of the city I see as you came in from the west
there was a locked area called Humpawhammer you couldn't enter.  But since the
Sgt was kind enough to give you the control key you can use this teleporter to
get to New City consul in a hurry.

  I've gotten the 5 flowers finally, didn't see anything about the names of
the witches under any of the hoods, and have the note from Xhen on mixing the
Red and Blue, Yellow and Purple, those together and then the white.  Can mix
the first the two to gether to end up with an amborsia but the white won't mix
with it, strange anyone  can provide info????
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 170       Sun Oct 25, 1992
AGNARI                       at 03:05 EST

  Sorry Brian I forgot to mention that the Humpawhammer room was just to the
North of that Western entrance to the city.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 171       Sun Oct 25, 1992
M.HUSTON1 [Mark]             at 08:39 EST

Has anyone figured out how to get through the water in the cave in the Ukpyr
Mountains?  I found the lever that opened another access to the water, but
can't get across without being sucked down by the current.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 172       Sun Oct 25, 1992
BARAK                        at 08:56 EST

Does anyone have any thoughts on which is the best "path" to take when offered
the choice in the Land of Dreams?  I did all five and save games with each.  I
am playing on with my Samurai using the Sword of Four Winds which I have
uncursed.  Also what is the Holy Work that Xeng wants before he will talk to
you.  I think I have missed something in Munkharama!  Also what is the White
Rubber Bear for?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 173       Sun Oct 25, 1992
AGNARI                       at 09:12 EST

  Good questions Barak, however I don't have any useful answers. I took the
Staff path and though everyone's Intelligence went up.  Oooh, doesn't Xeng
what the Holy Covenant????  As for the White Rubber Bear, all I can think of
is that it is for Later ;)
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 174       Sun Oct 25, 1992
K.DRONKE [AKKarl]            at 09:23 EST



   Does anyone know if there's a way to cure a character of disease if you
don't have the Cure Disease spell yet?  I'm also having a hell of a time
getting through the fields of wild orchids.  Any hints?


                                        Thanks, AKKarl
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 175       Sun Oct 25, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 09:28 EST



 Agnari:  I declined to accept admittance into the 5 Flowers
 school and went on to Rattkin Ruins (where I'm stuck.)  I
 met Xheng later on and he tells me that he left a note for
 me back in the school.  I went back to the school and cannot
 find any such note.  Do you know of or where that note that
 Xheng is talking about is located????



 D.Savalli:  Well, found a spot to put that bar/ropes and like
 you said, all it does is allow you to climb down and from there
 either climb back up or drop down.  Still cannot figure out
 those dang switches, either.   Have you made any further progress
 per those switches???



 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 176       Sun Oct 25, 1992
AGNARI                       at 10:23 EST

AKKarl, there is someone who sells a cure disease potion which should help
till one of your MU's [magic users] gets the cure disease spell offered - of
course at the time that is offered there will probably be another choice you
want/need even more.

  Jeff, he dropped the note for me right there on the square  as you enter the
dojo.  The note's purpose was to give you some words that will get you into
another part of Father Rulae's domain. Try using Holy Sacrament - healing be
free, and by the time I got there the special chest was of course empty :(
Gosh I still haven't gotten into the Rattkin ruins, but I suspect that it has
something to do with the face in the tree and the bonasi tree or something
else I don't have.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 177       Sun Oct 25, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 12:05 EST



 Agnari:  I was wondering whether the note had some mention of
 the quest for 5 flowers...   Oh well, I did get Brother Rulae
 to help me out.   The Bonsai Tree is indeed needed for the
 Rattkin Ruins quest...


 Did anyone get that computer in New City activated???  An
 unexpected (at this point) scene ensures with Vi Dominae and I
 assume the Dark Savant.  I think I may be a bit premature at
 this point in pursuing this particular path...


 Jeff T.



 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 178       Sun Oct 25, 1992
AGNARI                       at 12:33 EST

  Jeff right after I did the *S, noticed I hadn't mentioned the flower stuff.

  "mix the Red Rosis and the Blue Mythia, the Yellow Lione and the Purple
Plumand, then these together, and lastly a divine (albeit odorous) solution of
White Dahlia"

  I've done that mixing 3 or 4 times and I get an ambrosia from the first 4
but the White Dahlia won't mix with it.  Maybe it's not potent and I should
have done it right after picking the white one?????

  Haven't gotten the computer activiated, did get to almost talk to it as I've
gotten the comm link; but now it wants an access node connection or I suspect
it's asking which network I want to log on to. Of course it doesn't like any
of my answers and shuts down.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 179       Sun Oct 25, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 17:23 EST

J.Thomas69-
   No go on the switches as of yet. I just keep flipping switches and entering
the water slide. Supposedly you end up someplace new at the end of the slide
if the combination is right.  AGNARI-
   I run into the same situation on the computer. I haven't a clue what  word
it wants.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 180       Sun Oct 25, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 17:25 EST



 Whew!  Some tough battles with Vilet Kanebe and the T'rang Queen
 and now I have the Serpent & Crystal maps.   Still dunno about
 that stupid Fun House...

 Agnari:  Are you undertaking this quest for the 5 flowers after
 answering YES to Xen Xheng question about joining the school,
 or what?  I declined to join, myself.  As for the computer, it's
 worthless until you've done some dirty work in Nycalinth..


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 181       Sun Oct 25, 1992
L.EIERDAM [Lee]              at 18:23 EST



  After the ?premature? encounter with Vi, could you think of anything to get
her out of the room with? (I did it early accidently and didn't have many of
the items/keys I have now)...


  A few burning questions:


  1] Does anyone know where you use the Key of Azure or the Key of
Gorgoo?(something like that). I have them, but have NO idea where in heck they
are supposed to work.


  2] Has anyone been able to retrieve the map from the Danes? I am unable to
get past a gate with a demon heads/candle holder and also unable to find
whatever beast and pit the book of immortals rambles about...

  3] Anyone else noticed some of the more powerful weapons/items from Bane
when transferred over have less power (IE the Ring of Stars no longer
regenerates)


  4] WHERE DO I FIND THE WITCHES' HOODS? The only place that I can use the
vines is by merging all four, tying them to a rock and climbing down into an
area I had already been from a different entrance(I think it's the 'unscalable
cliff' area. Could someone please give some instructions or just e-mail me the
witches names?



  Thanks

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 182       Sun Oct 25, 1992
AGNARI                       at 18:28 EST

  Yes Jeff I said I'd join and then took the Staff option from the options
offered it seemed the more "Intelligent" option.  He then sent me on that 5
flower mission. But when I got back he was gone but had left the note.
Remember that Xheng is the third in the line of assist/joining Brother Rulae,
Brother T'Shober and then Xen Xheng.

  Guess I'll have to check out that Dane area and the ruins. Somewhere near
all those witch mountain up/downs I ran across a 3x3 underground room that has
a locked grill preventing further entry into which ever dungeon it is.  Also
is that water suck you under and die area that is preventing me from getting
to another passage I've not yet explored.

So I hate leaving these areas "unfinished" but I don't see any other options
open at the moment. Only trouble is, I won't get all these MAPS converted to
computer files until too late this evening to do any exploring :(  Well at
least I can start in Monday night with fairly complete maps.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 183       Sun Oct 25, 1992
BARAK                        at 19:06 EST

Agnari, thanks for the nudge... I found the Holy Work and the "gizmo" in th
crypt (Onyx Key). I think I have finished Munkharama... I took Xeng up on the
offer of the Five Flower; so I am off to the mountains at my next session...
Boy, is this game B-I-G... I have so many loose ends hanging o that I don't
know if I will every tie them up... I have done Nacylinth, New City/Old City,
Orkogre Castle, and now Munkharama and still only have one map -- ?Legend?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 184       Sun Oct 25, 1992
SLEW                         at 23:13 EST

 I have legend and dragon maps now but they don't seem to be very
 helpful. Which is the map that tells about the twisted heads puzzle?

 The azure key (from Orkogre) opens a gate there leading to a fountain
 which restores magic. It's at the end of the hall from the entrance
 ladder. It might do something else though, but that's what it did for me.

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 185       Mon Oct 26, 1992
C.YANG6 [Jason Yang]         at 02:26 EST

  I think I'm furthur along then most of you here so ...

  The cave with unpassable waters: You will know how to get pass the water
after completing the Witch part (i.e. freeing the good witch)

  The 5 flowers: If you meet up with Xeng later and ask him about the white
Dahlia he will tell you that you need to MERGE it with a HOLY POTION first.
(you can get the potion from Rulae in New City)

  The Funhouse: The levers infront of the transparent walls control the path
of the water slide.  Some combination of the levers will allow you to reach a
area (with the help of the bar/rope over the pit) where you will find a large
black ball.  You should know what to do then.  (I did not draw a map so can't
give you the exact combinations; sorry)

  The tower of Dane: Afer becoming 'Lord of Dane' you should reach an area
with three small rooms, one of which is marked EGRESS.  The other room at the
end will allow you to go up to the roof where you can find and kill a demon...

  The Witches: Wearing the Necromantic helmet found in Giants cave at the
place of the haunting (after climbing down the long vine) will let you find
the names of the witches.

  The 6 heads: The *Boat* Map will give you clues to the heads.

  If you think this game is big, wait until you get the boat and start mapping
out the SEA of SORROWS!

                                                Jason
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 186       Mon Oct 26, 1992
C.FREAS                      at 18:11 EST

 I have a couple of questions. 1. Could someone please tell me exactly what to
say to get into the land of dreams or exactly what to say to moser so he will
tell me. 2. does anyone know what to do with the rubber bear? 3. does anyone
know what to do with wickums globe. thathanks. c.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 187       Mon Oct 26, 1992
AGNARI                       at 19:19 EST

  C. Feas  don't know what to say to Moser, I asked him about the dream
emporium.  But tell the other guy Dreams to his first question and walking
dead to the second.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 188       Mon Oct 26, 1992
AGNARI                       at 20:16 EST

  Ok what's going on in Nyc....  took the wrong turn after leaving that bozo
behind the window and got jumped. After the battle I can reach new areas of
Ny... but after using that 3rd finger device I got to an area don't seem to be
able to leave.  One area is blocked by a force barrier, and I don't see anyway
ot stopping  that ghostly thing from taking the jeweled item from the altar.
Only way out that I can see is restoring from a save prior to entry.  I saw
the 3 frozen(??) SV Guards below but couldn't get them unfrozen.

  Anyone have any hints?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 189       Mon Oct 26, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 22:29 EST

How does one cross the open pit that guards a ladder in the temple of
Munkharama?

 Danny
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 190       Mon Oct 26, 1992
R.ROBBERSON1 [Highlander]    at 23:06 EST

HAve just gotten underway in this game and am a little puzzled at what I have
seen so far in this adventure.

A) Found a dungeon outside of New City. Is this Old City? The clues I have
gotten inside is that Old City is under New City. I discovered a room in New
City that had a sign referring to Old City. IS this anything special.

b)Does order of quests mean anything? I have freed the Gor, and now about the
Bridge Guarding monk? Which do I do first?

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 191       Mon Oct 26, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:45 EST

  Danny you need to look at the back wall [outside of the room} and then think
about that knobby stick you've got.  I'm sure you'll think of a place to stick
it!  ;)

  Highlander, I blv that is a "starter" dungeon to help you get a few points
and some armor.  Part 2 of A) Yes that is something special but after you
examine that wall you'll need a key from the library rat. Some have mentioned
that the phrase "archive" might get you some info or the key; personally he
attacked me and my steroid iron pumping body builders didn't like it and split
his binding.

  B) beats me I didn't write the game and haven't finished so I don't know if
the order is important. With the competing groups somebody might get in first
and get a prize or map.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 192       Tue Oct 27, 1992
C.YANG6 [Jason Yang]         at 03:32 EST

C. :
  1. Moser wants to know the name of the Hall of Dreams (the Gran Melange, I
think)
  2. I think the use of rubber bear is to raise a characters swimming skill by
a few points when invoked and not a special quest item.  (I find one way to
tell if an item  IS a special quest item when you try to sell it to a NPC and
they say 'you need it'.
  3. The use of the Wikum globe will be apparent once you acquire a boat.

AGNARI:
  I think the area you're in is the old cemetary in Nyc...  To get out of that
area, you need to be a ghoul...  I haven't been able to get the wand from the
on the altar or getting past the barrier or waking the SV Gaurds, so if you
solve them, please drop a hint here.


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 193       Tue Oct 27, 1992
AGNARI                       at 16:09 EST

  Thanks Jason, Jeff mentioned the grave robbing scenario so I've fallen thru
one and mapped quite a bit; but I don't know if I have the item needed to get
the gem wand or get thru the barrier. Maybe if I have time tonight.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 194       Tue Oct 27, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:47 EST



 Agnari:  Thanks for the reply.   Just finally bopped old SPOT,
 and I counted over 1300 hit points needed to make him extinct.

 The item needed is to free the Gem Wand is not below-ground,
 but above ground, but to get there, you gotta go below-ground!


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 195       Tue Oct 27, 1992
L.EIERDAM [Lee]              at 19:58 EST

  Agnari-

    The cave with the churning waters in impassable until you retrieve the
Sphinx map from the witch quest (Actually it isn't impassable, but the map
gives you the clue so that you don't have to try to swim accross) If you want
to know what to do, email me and I'll tell you outright ;)


  Slew-

    The boat map (through the funhouse) is what gives you the solution to the
twisted heads puzzle. When you solve it an area opens that gives you a boat.


  All-

    I got those damn flowers and Xen's note and am unable to mix the flowers
as he instructs... I keep ending up with 'Orchid Ambrosia' that the white
dahlia refuses to merge with... Anyone manage to get them all together and if
so, how?

    I believe I have completed all the cities/ruins on the main continent. I
have collected 9 maps, is this all there is to found? I'm about to set sail
and I don't want to leave with out everything I need.

    Does anyone know just how many maps are in this game???


  Sir-Tech-

    Is the choice between joining forces with Vi Domina against the Dark
Savant or not one of the hinges for the different endings?(Just in case I made
an extra save!)

    WHERE do you get a chance to learn Snake Speed, Reflection and
Powerstrike? And how in the heck do you get to Sky City?



  Back to the future...(past?!?!)


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 196       Tue Oct 27, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 20:35 EST

    You have to merge the white Dahlia with Holy Water before you can  merge
it with the Orchid Ambrosia.
                            Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 197       Tue Oct 27, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 21:46 EST



 Lee:  Remember old Blindmeis? He had a Ring of Relextion for
 sale, and equipping it gave that character the Reflextion
 skill.  In addition, somewhere in my wanderings I found a
 Power Gem/Jewel that when equipped, gave that character
 the Powerstrike skill.

 Right now, I'm wandering around helplessly lost in the mountains.
 I found a 250 feet vine, a witch with the golden face, and
 the witch's cave.  I also found a long climb down but the vine
 is too short.  Is there supposed to be another vine somewhere???

 Only 3 flowers, thus far, Yellow, Purple, and Red...


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 198       Tue Oct 27, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 22:14 EST

 RE: Quest for 5 Flowers

Finding all these flowers is a pain in the buskins. Can, would

anybody help me with the location of the Blue Mythia flower?

Will trade info on Dane Temple, which I completed this a.m..

Boffo ending to that installment of this clambake.  Thanks!

Greg (Get *on* with it, man!) Beck

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 199       Tue Oct 27, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:15 EST

  Yes Jeff you should find 3 (maybe it was 4 more vine parts, but I expect
that you know that by now).

  Me I'm over in the Dane area trying to figure out what I'm to stuff into the
Urns to make some progress.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 200       Tue Oct 27, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:23 EST

  Greg, when you left the town thru the Northernly exit you ran into
eventually an impossible cliff to climb???  Well thru that city gate you can
find the white, blue and yellow flowers.  Shortly before the path from town
disappears there was an exit to the West which eventually led to the white
flower and the unclimbable cliff.  Well if you had followed the road/path and
taken that Northeasternly branch after a few round_a_abouts you have a choice
of a Northernly path and a an Easternly path.  Northern one leads to the cave
and the yellow flower while at the end to the other you find the blue flower.

  But, I'll bet if you mapped the area, you've discovered all of this by now
;)  My map puts the blue flower's location about 21hexs North and about 13hexs
East of that city square of four colum posts supporting arches as you leave.

  Ok, to help me out with those stupid Urns, I'll ask you to go ahead and post
the answer, in the hopes that it will enable me to solve the puzzle before you
can reply!!!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 201       Tue Oct 27, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:43 EST

  Gosh did I really miss that cell with the chest in it across from the grill -
or did that open up after I stepped into the two Urn rooms????
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 202       Wed Oct 28, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 07:51 EST

 AGNARI,

RE: The Urns in Dane Temple:

Near as I could figure out, using Jongha Powder in the urns turned

off any local traps in the area.  My mistake was using all three

doses of Jongha Powder in the first dark area, where there's a

killer trap.  After using the powder, the trap disappeared.  I

think that if I'd used only one dose, it would have yieled the

same results.  Then I'd have had powder for the urn near the coffer

temple, where there's a *really* nasty trap that vegifies the

party.  So...try using only one Jongha powder per urn and save them

for the dark area and coffer temple areas.  BTW, the Dane temple is

the only area where I've mapped. It was a tough but very rewarding

area to complete: Unexpected results like other parts of this romp.

Regards,

Greg

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 203       Wed Oct 28, 1992
D.MILLER31                   at 17:29 EST

Ok, I am in with xheng and he says....Slay not he that cannot hear and is
waiting for response...I wrote it down but for the life of me, cannot find the
answer(lost notes).  What is the correct response?????Help me please!!!!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 204       Wed Oct 28, 1992
R.DOMINICK2 [Mr. Horrible]   at 18:43 EST

...I believe that it is: "Be thankful that you have an ear."
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 205       Wed Oct 28, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 18:57 EST

 Be thanful ye that hath an ear! (And take good notes! ;))

Agnari, Thraxe for the info on the blue mythia. I never knew

snakes peed.

Now...I have four lovely pieces of gold facial parts and know

not where to go to redeem them for neat prizes.  Witch way do

I go to dump the golden bits? Inventory pressure in this game

and all that...Thanks!!!

Regards,

Greg (Back to using graph paper) Beck

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 206       Wed Oct 28, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 19:30 EST




  Agnari:  Where in relation to the Cave with the impassable waters
  is that dang Blue Flower?????   I'm on the very last square of
  road prior to the mountains and have yet to find an east path
  that leads to the Blue flower.   I have the other four flowers.


  Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 207       Wed Oct 28, 1992
AGNARI                       at 20:26 EST

  Jeff at the first road end you enter a circle are and ther is a north road
bit to another circle area which to the east has more road parts. Well where
this second section of the road after the breakup there is a southernly exit
that wraps to the east [be aware there is a 2x2 open area and then taking
another easternly exit from the south you get to the VERY eastern part which
has 2 blocks in the north that dead end, the western northly dead end had the
blue flower.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 208       Wed Oct 28, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 21:10 EST

  Does anyone know how to get past the force field area and how to get the rod
from the ghost in the cemetary in Nyctalinth? I already have the ray gun,
which was used on the savant, and I have the budda looking statue. Right now I
have done everything I can, except getting past those two areas. Also, are
there any computer terminals in Nyctalinth, I remember playing  with one in my
travels, but I can't remember where it was. Thanks in  advance.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 209       Wed Oct 28, 1992
C.KANOLES                    at 22:03 EST

HELP!!!!!!!!!  I would appreciate explicit instructions for the levers  in the
funhouse.  Do you realize how many combinations that are possible? I've tried
many of them.  I was at Dane temple, but couldn't figure out what to do   with
the gate/demon cornu combo.  Now these levers.  Jeez.

Thank you to any and all kind, wonderful souls who help me. Ziploc
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 210       Wed Oct 28, 1992
G.B.SMITH [ ]                at 22:05 EST

I have played this game differently than most---apparently.  I have level 17
and 18 characters but have solved very few "puzzles" as they have been a pain.
I built my characters up in Ukpyr where everything attached me.  I ended up
slaughtering the town and never could find out about any "quests" nor did I
enlist or was I asked to enlist.  I left when I could not get into the 2 doors
in the firing range...wondering what I did wrong.  I did end up with 6
powerhouse characters all capable of spells. Now a few questions:  (1).  Where
are there some "good" weapons?  I am still fighting with original swords.
(2). What am I supposed to do with the beans in Munkharmama?  I keep getting
dumped into the basement with nothing happening.  (3) What the deal with the
opening and closing pits in the Dane Temple?  I can't get the ones to close
that allow me to go on. Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanx!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 211       Wed Oct 28, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:07 EST

  D.S. you have used the longstem spade to dig up right?  well eventually
you're digging will get you something that's under a statue which tricks the
ghost thing into thinking you are in one room and it dashs to the other -
where you are. So it takes the thing [can't remember what it was ] and drops
the sceptre of crossing.

  Now can anyone remember in Nycl... what key was used to open the pits of
hell???? and if so where you found it perchance?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 212       Wed Oct 28, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:12 EST

  G.B.  good weapons can occassionaly pop up in the black market and over at
Paluk's later in the game.  Don't think we will see a lot of POWER weapons
like there were in BoCF - but that is just a guess.

  Those beans in Munkharama let you use the spinner. Of course after
distributing all four I'd do a save and then go in and pull the spinner. That
way if you don't get the Black/B/B/B combo to win 5,000 exp points you can
always restore after you've fallen in and won't loose very much time.

  Opening/Closing pits in the Dane tower.  I didn't keep very complete notes
on that but I seem to recall that the pattern was like room A let you get to
B.  Then going to A then B could get you to C, then A, B C would get you to D.
and so on until you got to the other side.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 213       Wed Oct 28, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 22:13 EST



 Agnari:  Thanks. I think I was looking too far North.  Will circle
 back and look for the flower after finishing up in the Witch's
 cave area...


 D.Savalli:  Try using that Buddha status to get that jeweled rod.
 Yes, there was a terminal in Nycalinth, the info gained there
 helps with the terminal in New City.   BTW, did you ever solve
 the switch problem in Fun House????


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 214       Wed Oct 28, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 22:26 EST



 Ziploc:  According to a Fellow Far Beyond Me in this game, those
 levers are random, and took him two hours to get right.  Let's
 see, there are 5 levers, and only two possibilities (up/down)
 so that means 32 possible combinations.  Yech.


 Agnari:  What Pits of Hell in Nyc???  I thought I had that
 one mapped out pretty well....


 Would you believe it!  While climbing up in the Witch Mts area,
 about 3 climbs up, I ran into all those NPCs again.  This game
 needs more intelligence as to the whereabouts of those NPCs.
 I'm expecting to get some magic carpet, and while flying 10,000
 feet above the ground, I'll probably run into all those NPCs
 just walking on the clouds or something...


 Jeff T.

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 215       Wed Oct 28, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:28 EST

  Sorry Jeff, I of course meant in the Dane Tower. Guess it's the final thing
to become a Dane Father and get some dark secrets from the Dane King.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 216       Thu Oct 29, 1992
R.DOMINICK2 [Mr. Horrible]   at 02:25 EST

Well, I finally did it.  Assembled a half-decent party of characters, with
three 'elite-class' fighters (Samurai, Valkyrie, Lord) and a Bishop and
regular Thief and Mage.  Three characters who'll be able to cast Heal Wounds!
Wow!  :-)  The real pain is having to start over again.  I'll have to do the
starter dungeon, and the encounters in New City... I'll leave the Munk and the
Gorn for last, tho'.  I think I'm going to try to go to Munkharama first.  Is
there a reason why I shouldn't do this?  It couldn't be harder than OrkOgre
castle... (of course, I had no elite characters but a bard in that party.)
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 217       Thu Oct 29, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 11:45 EST

J.Thomas69-
  Yeah, I finally got past the lever thing. I didn't give the combo because
the one combo answer I received somewhere else was completely different than
the one I used, so I figured it was random. I only got the right one  through
sheer luck, I got mad flipped a few switches, hit the slide and  boom I was
there. One thing though, make sure you have the rope and stick over the pit
and the wooded dowel in place, or you'll screw up.Later.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 218       Thu Oct 29, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:24 EST



 D.Savalli:  Good.  I went wayyyy back to an older save game from
 the Land of Dreams sequence, and did the 5 flowers and Witch
 quests.  So, I gotta go thru this Fun House again...

 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 219       Thu Oct 29, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 18:46 EST

 Hi, all.

Can anyone start me in the right direction to cash in the golden

facial parts picked up from the witches?  Need a break from the

Funhouse and the eyes, nose, et al are taking up room!

thanks...Greg

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 220       Thu Oct 29, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 18:57 EST

   Yes, please help us out with the witches!  Where do you find the names of
the witches?  I believe I read it in an earlier post but since I wasnt on the
witch quest then I just ignored it.
                              Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 221       Thu Oct 29, 1992
L.EIERDAM [Lee]              at 20:46 EST

Can anyone help me with the right order to click on the Rune buttons for the
second part of the test at the statue in the city of Sky?
 Thanks

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 222       Fri Oct 30, 1992
L.EIERDAM [Lee]              at 02:02 EST


  Greg- There's an area I believe in the North Western area of that cave that
has another ebony mirror with the good witch in it, then you put the parts on
a blank face that's sitting on the table.


  Agent- You obtain the witch's names by getting the Necromatic Helm (From
'Spot' in the Giant Cave) and equipping it in the mountain ground level) area
where you felt cold spots (I think the first message was something like 'You
feel this place is haunted'). If you can't find the area e-mail and I'll send
you their names ;).


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 223       Fri Oct 30, 1992
C.YANG6 [Jason Yang]         at 05:59 EST

Help...
  What is the combinations for the buttons with symbols (Dragon, Star, Wand,
...) in City of Sky?  I think this has something to do with the *Crystal* map
but I just can't figure it out.

                                        Jason

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 224       Fri Oct 30, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 18:12 EST

 Thanks, Lee!

Greg

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 225       Fri Oct 30, 1992
AGNARI                       at 18:38 EST

  So has anyone figured out where the pits of hell are and how to get into
them?  I've got that gate/chest south of the long cooridor of firey explosions
thru the gates, that I can't unlock the gates to reach it [neither the east or
west side of it] so I've assumed that chest or from that chest area the pits
are reached to call_fortth or do battle with this demon - but hey I could be
wrong.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 226       Fri Oct 30, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 22:40 EST



 Agnari:  I'm in the Tower of Dane, and on the 5th level
 (Deadly Coffers Temple).  I've got 5 Coffer Keys, but I'm in
 the smaller room with gates to the N, S, and E that these
 keys don't work on.  What gives here????


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 227       Fri Oct 30, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:17 EST

  Jeff there must be about 10 coffer keys, I'm currently a level or two ahead
of you [when you posted].  Checking my map I think there were 10 or 9 coffer
keys in the 11 chests on that  level.  Much later I found the hidden room with
what was possibly a MAP chest but of course I found it soooo late the cupboard
was bare.  Trouble is finding out which of the coffer keys opens the grate to
the east so you can find 2 more keys to open the next door to the east to find
4 more keys and an idol to open the northern grill in the second chamber to
use the idol to open the grate to the south and thus reach the stairs to the
next level [btw the secret room is in the third water room on the souther
wall, please let me know what I missed????].
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 228       Sat Oct 31, 1992
K.ROGERS1 [Kelly]            at 00:38 EST

Help!!  I have 3 of the flowers, blue, white, and yellow but I can't  find the
last two.  I have that area mapped out pretty well but don't find the witches
caves either.  I have seen the spots where it says "This place feels haunted"
or something like that.  What do you do there??  I've also been to the
unscalable wall.  Appreciate the help.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 229       Sat Oct 31, 1992
AGNARI                       at 01:31 EST

  Kelly, you have to travel north from the eastern shore of the river-road
from newcity to munkharama, eventually you will get to a mountian area.  On/In
this mountain area you get the other two flowers and something to use in those
chill spots to get info to use back in the witch cave.

  Or so I understand as I haven't quite completed all of that stuff [got the
flowers but not the witch names and answered the questions from the mirrors].
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 230       Sat Oct 31, 1992
R.LAWRENCE [The Count]       at 11:50 EST

Hi folks, I haven't been here in a while.  I think I have a problem...  I know
you should enlist with the Umpani, but I have never been given that option.  I
wander around Ukpyr and the only thing they ever do is yell Intruder Alert,
Attack.   I must fight at this point.  I have yet to finish the whole city,
but will I ever be allowed to enlist, or is this a portion of the game I will
have to miss? I'll talk to you later....Bye.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 231       Sat Oct 31, 1992
A.GEYER1 [Lex]               at 12:06 EST

I chose to start from the Dragon/Spaceship ending and thus started in a
different part of the forests from everyone else it seems. (Forest north of
Ukpyr) When I got to Ukpyr I was confronted, right at the entrance by a guard
that initially acted threatening (demanding to know who I was and what was I
doing there) and then shifting into the offer to join the scouts. I know there
are two entrances (N & S) into Ukpyr surely this "guard" isn't only stationed
at one of the entrances?!?! Puzzling!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 232       Sat Oct 31, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 13:00 EST




 Where do I find the Book of Immortals???  I have all the
 other stuff as required by the Magna Dane, the Innards, Ashes,
 and Gate Stone, but no Book...


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 233       Sat Oct 31, 1992
AGNARI                       at 13:14 EST

  Beats me I picked it up somewhere along the way and didn't accurately mark
which level it was acquired on.  However most every level was an 8x16 hex
rectangle so check your maps for anything smaller then that [the deadly coffer
lvl was I think about 10x16 bcs of the odd shaped rooms].
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 234       Sat Oct 31, 1992
L.EIERDAM [Lee]              at 15:30 EST

  The Book of Immortals is in the chest with the +3 Plate Mail at the end of
the hall with all the fireballs (where there are four gates that you continue
to take damage as you pass)...It isn't a hidden/secret area, the chest is out
in the open. I don't know the exact hex/map place but it's in the northeastern
area of the level of 'wanderers'.

  Anyone know what the combination is to the runes/second test in the City of
Sky? I thought it had something to do with the Crystal Map, but maybe not...

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 235       Sat Oct 31, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 15:37 EST



 Agnari:  Jeez.  The stupid book was in a chest just around the
 corner.  Well, I defeated the Demon, killed the Magna Dane
 and assorted cronies and got the jeweled stuff from the chest
 locked inside the cubicle with the Demon's face.  Is that it???

 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 236       Sat Oct 31, 1992
AGNARI                       at 16:56 EST

  ARRRGGGH so where did you meet the demon????  I though you had to kill the
demon beyond that Demon gate face thingie and can't open it.  Of course if you
killed Father Magna Dane that would explain things.  He sent me off to go kill
the demon and return with a horn of some type and I can't find the demon.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 237       Sat Oct 31, 1992
B.DUNCAN7 [Brian Duncan]     at 17:00 EST

        Well, I just finished the water puzzle in the Rattkin Ruins, for those
that don't want to go through a binary search(like I did), this might help:
There are three "levels" with levers(though 3 are on the same level, 1 can
only be accessed by going up a ladder and then down a stairwell).  Starting
with the level you "start" on(this one had the target you had to hit with the
ball), the farthest lever at the end of a passage is UP, the other lever on
that level is DOWN, the lever that is by itself(up ladder, down stairs to a
lever) is DOWN, on the level with just two levers and no other passageways
leading anywhere, the closest lever(to the stairs) is UP and the farthest one
is DOWN.  I hope that helps, though perhaps the puzzle is random, took me
about 40 minutes to do it, unfortunately it was try #22 out of 32, oh well.

        Does anyone know the answer to the Spears puzzle?  It's probably on a
map, and if so, which one?  Also, is there anything to do after finishing the
Water trough puzzle?  I basically ended up outside and knocked off a few
giants and found a lair, but didn't feel like cruising around too much, where
are all the Razuka, or is it just the spears puzzle and then I'm done?


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 238       Sat Oct 31, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:13 EST


 Agnari:  After being sent off to kill the demon, you gotta go
 back up to the top of the tower, then take the "Demon" lever
 option back down which puts you in that "fireball" passage and
 then you get the Book of Immortatlitty.  -THEN- you gotta go
 back out to the top of tower AGAIN, and take the "Demon" option
 lever.  This time however, instead of leaping down that first
 pit in the middle of the water, go thru the innards/ashes/stone
 routine and then be prepared to fight that demon.


 Brian:  Did you ever talk to the Queen T'rang in Nyc??  She gives
 out a clue to the Spears problem.  After solving the spears thing,
 you should get the famous Boat map..


 Jeff T.

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 239       Sat Oct 31, 1992
K.ROGERS1 [Kelly]            at 19:52 EST

Thanks for the help Agnari.  I found that area but only found the violet
flower and no white flower.  I never located the giants cave either to get
what I think is the item needed to learn the witches names.  Where is that
cave??  One other question...in the bottom level, there is a ladder that leads
to a 2x2 room with a gate.  Where do you get the key to open that gate.
Thanks, Kelly
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 240       Sat Oct 31, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:34 EST

  Don't know about the key kelly.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 241       Sun Nov 01, 1992
PRINCE.NAMOR                 at 00:31 EST

Help, I'm stuck in the fun house...have conected the 200lb weight, the
rubberband and used the spool handle...what do I do next to exit this puzzle?

  PN
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 242       Sun Nov 01, 1992
K.ROGERS1 [Kelly]            at 01:02 EST

Never did find a key for that gate.  I just noticed that I don't have the red
flower.  Any idea on its location???  Agnari, aren't you in West Texas? I'm
from Big Spring...small world.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 243       Sun Nov 01, 1992
AGNARI                       at 09:14 EST

  Kelly the red flower was in a cave [without a grid coordinate system it's
kind of hard to point out which cave though]. There was some water and it was
on a small island in the southern area of the cave and was reached by the
south [northern part of the island was cave walls]. This wasn't if memory
serves me correctly the same cave with the lever and the pull down water death
traps.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 244       Sun Nov 01, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 10:41 EST

is anyone near finishing this game? Agnari and Jeff seem to have put mucho
hours in so far and I don't think either has stated that they have finished!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 245       Sun Nov 01, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 11:44 EST

 Well, I "solved" the lever/water puzzle in the Ratkin ruins *late*

last night.  All I could add to the above advice is to start

with all 5 levers up, then find the one that guides you more or

less straight ahead while falling through the various levels.

The longer the ride, the better, it *seems.*  Then, find the one

lever that will get you to the rope you've dropped through the chute

up above.  After that, the next puzzle is a pleasure, comparatively.

Now I need to find Wikum's globe (referred to elsewhere, but I

never found in under Munkharama.)  Does anyone remember where in

M-rama the Wikum Globe is? I re-searched the level with all

the chests.  Nada.  Help, please!!


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 246       Sun Nov 01, 1992
L.EIERDAM [Lee]              at 13:18 EST

  The powerglobe is on the same level as the holy work...In a side chamber
with a black altar and a room with mummys...You'll get it ;) Just pull the
lever to make the altar rise, then (after taking the globe)again to make the
gate open....

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 247       Sun Nov 01, 1992
G.B.SMITH [ ]                at 14:25 EST

I have 2 questions as I am at "Dead Ends": (1) I have pushed the secret button
and pulled the lever that opens the pit in the first cell of Orkogre Castle.
Now how do I get down that pit? (2) I am missing something that enables me to
get beyond the pits in the second level of the Dane Tower. Probably I need to
deposit something in the urn across the hall.  What do I do to close the pits
enabling me to proceed Any and all help appreciated.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 248       Sun Nov 01, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 14:38 EST



 G.B.Smith:  As for the Dane Tower, did you try putting some
 of that Jonga Powder into the urns?  YOu can buy the power from
 Almagorte.   As for the pit in Orgkogre, just click on the pit
 and you'll jump in (and take some damage, unless you have
 a levitation spell).


 Rick:  My wife also wants to know when I'm going to finish this
 one...


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 249       Sun Nov 01, 1992
AGNARI                       at 15:18 EST

  Jeff, I guess she wouldn't like the answer: probably long after the divorce.
As for how far I was along in the game, well I'd spent so much time plodding
along outside exploring every nook&cranny that I decided to start OVER to see
what some of those empty chests contained [did however save that last position
in the Dane Tower, I may act brain dead at times; but I'm totally stupid].

  G.B.Smith the trick on those dane pits is to use the rooms to open close the
pits to get access to another side room to open/close more pits until you
evenutally reach the other side of the room.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 250       Sun Nov 01, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 16:10 EST

Agnari-
    In your last post you stated "I may act brain-dead at times, but I'm
totally stupid".  You mean NOT totally stupid right??? <I hope>

Brian D.-
    Thanks for the help on the Funhouse levers but I think the combination is
random in every game.  The combination you gave doesnt seem to work for me.
Did it work for anyone else?  Maybe I just did it wrong.  I wrote down all 32
combinations and tried them but either I messed one up or just skipped one
because none of them seemed to work.  Guess I have to start over... I HATE
this puzzle.
                                         Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 251       Sun Nov 01, 1992
C.KANOLES                    at 16:52 EST

Okay, I give.  Could someone please E-Mail the names of the witches to me?  I
put on the helmet and briefly saw some spirits heading for the center of a
clearing (near the cliff with the vine), but haven't a  clue as to what to try
next.  I've walked all over the   area, but nothing else happens.  I've walked
all over the mountains again, but nothing happens  .  By the way, I AM wearing
the Necromantic helm.  Thanks.

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 252       Sun Nov 01, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 16:57 EST

Thanks V'ger. I'll try that.

I have heard so much about this cheat thing.  Can I switch classes as well?

Also, what is the uncompressor program for it called? The cheat is in LZH
right?

Phil


BTW, I'm still stuck in the New City trying to deliver the orders to the
Umpani there.  How Do I get in the Umpani Detache? I'm already part of the
Umpani Scouts.


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 253       Sun Nov 01, 1992
BARAK                        at 16:58 EST

Okay, I have had my party drowned at least 10 times... What is the signi-
ficance and importance of the cave with the salty water? H-E-L-P, please!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 254       Sun Nov 01, 1992
AGNARI                       at 17:43 EST

  Ok so I forgot that little sign over the switch, do I feel like a fool
running around and never spotting it.  Ok so the Demon Spawn and the Mad Dane
are history; but still don't have a clue to opening either of those two grates
blocking the chest.  Did pickup from the dead Dane one of those maps which
were gone from the chest by the time I originally  got there.

  So anyone got any clues as to the keys that open those final grates??? The
horn seems to start something but, it doesn't appear to be enough.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 255       Sun Nov 01, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 17:44 EST

  Does anyone know how to enter Crypt Island? I got out there and am at a wall
with some creature on it, I assume you have to use something here. I, of
course, don't have whatever it is.  Thanks in advance for any help.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 256       Sun Nov 01, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 18:26 EST

Agnari-
   I hope you have a saved game from before you killed the Demon.  The only
way I've found to get to the chest is to choose "Forfeit" when talking to
Magna Dane.  Then you kill him and can get into the Magna Dane Temple.   Now
go kill the demon.  You must use the Horn on all three gates leading to the
chest.  In case you cant find the third it is behind a secret door in the
Magna Dane temple.
                                 Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 257       Sun Nov 01, 1992
AGNARI                       at 19:03 EST

  Agent, thanks ARRRRGGGH don't have a save before meeting with Magna Dane and
of course now that he is dead I don't have anyway of getting back in.  Oh well
time to go back to the newest game chars but at least I'll be prepared when I
reach this point next time.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 258       Sun Nov 01, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 19:17 EST



 Agnari:  After you battle the Magna Dane, you should have gotten
 a Demon Ring or something; USE it on the grate to the "Magna Dane"
 room because none of the two outside "Horn" doors will open, the
 real "Horn" door is reached only from inside the "Magna Dane"
 room.  BTW, which map did you gather from the Dane as I didn't
 get any parchments/maps of any kind?


 Samurai: Did you take the Humpawamthingy to get back to New City?
 That is the only correct way to deliver the message.



 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 259       Sun Nov 01, 1992
C.FREAS                      at 20:58 EST

 D. savalli.. I havent been to the isle of crypts but somewhere I did pick up
the key of crypts. I would imagine that is what you need to get in.

All.. I seem to be stuck in NYC.. I opened the livestock center and met the
ghost that says follow me and am now stuck. WHat next? c.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 260       Sun Nov 01, 1992
AGNARI                       at 21:02 EST

  Jeff It was the Legend one I blv.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 261       Sun Nov 01, 1992
SLEW                         at 22:25 EST

 Help guys! I'm stuck in Munkamarama. I'm on the lowest level with all
 the water. I got the holy work and I got the globe of wiccan (or
 whatever it's called) but I can't find anything else (like a map)
 anywhere. I have a couple of iron keys, a pewter and a gorrid (or
 something like that) key but none of them will work on any of the other
 grates in the place with all the water (where the holy work was). Am
 I missing something??? I'd really like to finish munkawhatever already
 as it was a truly tedious dungeon and not one I'd like to stick around
 in for very long. That trap with the mummys was awful..took me totally
 by surprise (heheh SirTech you got me good :). Hopefully someone will
 have a clue for me to get out of here. Does anyone know what the bone
 comb and brushes? is for? I haven't found a use for it yet.

 Thanks!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 262       Mon Nov 02, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 02:15 EST

Jeff - I have the Humpa card if that's what you mean, but that's just it, a
card.  I also have my Scout badge and Yamo's dispatch plus order#5 from the
Umpani.

I assume you need a key or something to get in the detache.


So what do you do with the Humpa card?

Phil

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 263       Mon Nov 02, 1992
L.EIERDAM [Lee]              at 02:37 EST

Guys HELP:
 I'm still stuck at the second test statue in the city of sky. Have been for
the last three or four days. It's the one with the nine buttons such as
star,dragon,gate,map and etc...
 I can't get the right combination. I tried E-Mail to Sir Tech (Todd), and
calling the Sir Tech hotline. The fellow on the hotline said that he didn't
know the answer since only one of their testers was that far into the game and
that he wasn't there. But he took my name and number and would try to find out
the answer and call me. In the meantime I can't get any further.

*** ANYONE please post or E-Mail the combo please.***

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 264       Mon Nov 02, 1992
S.BAKER26 [V'ger]            at 04:40 EST

Samurai,

        Pour nada. 8) I haven't tried to change classes with cheat. I just
change within the game at level nine or so. Your stats all got to pot, but you
sure to get spells and skill points fast. The is another downside to this
constant switching, that is, that you can't cast some of the higher level
spells effectively. I must admit, I dissagree with the game's zapping all my
stats when I change so I put them back where they were or close. Mostly, I use
cheat to put back all my spell points, so I don't have to rest for 24-36 hours
and whatch the moon go by. 8) Eventually, I'll have to settle down and decide
what I want to be when I grow up, 8) but I'm having too much fun changing
classes.

        You want LHARC to decompress that file. You may have a copy of it
already with some of your games. Alot of companies are using it to scrunch
their files.

        Just keep doing what the Sgt. tell you and eventually you'll get the
item you need to get in the Detache.

Y'all,

        Slow down! I'm catching up as fast as I can! <BWG>


                                Make it so.

                                V'ger gone
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 265       Mon Nov 02, 1992
PRINCE.NAMOR                 at 12:29 EST

Help!  Still stuck in the funhouse.  Connected 200 lb weight...connected
rubber band to fan...used the spool...can't seem to get any further. What do I
do next?
  Thanks,
  PN
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 266       Mon Nov 02, 1992
AGNARI                       at 17:10 EST

  Samurai, the card is all that is needed to access the portal to NewCity.  As
it unlocks the door to the Hum......... facility [found on the West side of
town slightly north of where you entered arriving from New City].

  Jeff/Thomas thanks for the tip on the ring!  Though I had tried everything
on that door.  Know for a fact I tried that ring/horn on the other two grates
to the chests, must have missed the ring on MagaDane door <blush>
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 267       Mon Nov 02, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 18:26 EST

    AAAARRRGGGHHHH I still cant get the stupid levers in the Funhouse into the
right combination. FOUR times I've gone through all 32 possible  combinations.
Obviously I am doing something wrong.  So far I put all  the levers into the
UP position and saved it.  Then I tried a combination and restored the game
when it didnt work.  Do the levers have to start in a down position or
something?  I've solved all the other cities except for Nycalinth so I am
pretty much stuck until I get by this!... I really hate puzzles that are along
the lines of "try combinations until you hit the right one".  There should at
least be a clue as to the combo.
                                       Agent oops almost forgot... Whoever was
asking about the City of Sky:  As far as
  I know the reason you arent getting a response is that nobody else is
  in the city of sky!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 268       Mon Nov 02, 1992
BARAK                        at 19:31 EST

Please, anyone, how do you get the rod from the ghost in the cemetary in
Nyctalinth? I have Ymmu's Paw from the grave. Is this what I need or is there
some other artifact I am missing? Please, this is driving me crazy. I have
otherwise finished Nyctalinth including dispatching the T'Rang  "Queen." I
assume I need the rod to get by the barrier in the cemetary to the section
beyond...  Thanks...
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 269       Mon Nov 02, 1992
AGNARI                       at 19:38 EST

  Barak did you dig up at the statue?  well take that item to one  of those
two rooms that the ghost comes to, it will grab the idol and drops the rod in
the process.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 270       Mon Nov 02, 1992
SLEW                         at 19:51 EST

 Where is the key to get the *#$#@! ?crypt? map??? Someone pleeeze drop
 me a hint..I don't want to have to come back to Munkawhatever again
 <shudder> or maybe I shouldn't be worried..someone probably already
 beat me to it <major sigh>
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 271       Mon Nov 02, 1992
L.EIERDAM [Lee]              at 20:22 EST

 Prince Namor-
  You have to use a potion of feather lightness right before you step on the
plank, that'll put you in a new area (The potion is available from that rat
that sells stuff, forgot his name)
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 272       Mon Nov 02, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 21:09 EST


 PN: Did you visit Old Blindmeis???  There's a potion you need to
 purchase from him to make you "light" enough so that you'll zip
 up to a new area when you step on one end of that plank.


 Agnari:  I almost missed the Ring thing myself, I just tried it
 on the door as a sort of an afterthought.


 Lee E:  Well, maybe you'll have to stay stuck in the City of Sky
 until the mob catches up with you...


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 273       Mon Nov 02, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 21:23 EST

 Wikum's Wacky Globe!?

Alright, I started over from a very early save in order to find

wikum's globe and set sail from New City. Figgered I'd dropped

the thing with all the other stuff I couldn't carry around.  Now,

I really can't find what you all have seemed to find with no

sweat: Wikum's bleep Globe.  Is it in the same room as the Holy

Work? This has driven me over the edge...Must be around here

somewhere...Heeeeere, Globey, Globey....

Thanks in advance!

Greg

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 274       Mon Nov 02, 1992
G.B.SMITH [ ]                at 21:25 EST

I still cannot get past the floor pits in the 2nd level of Dane Tower. I have
tried the powder in the urn---I used up all 3 of them.  I am aware that going
in and out of the side rooms opens and closes some of the %#$%$ pits but the
ones on the end of the room won't close no matter what I do.  I even tried
levate spells to no avail.  There must be some other trick to this.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 275       Mon Nov 02, 1992
DIPLOMACY-1                  at 22:24 EST

This is a really stupid one - but where (be exact please!) is the room with
the Rattkin Professor??  I ran into once when I first entered New City and now
I can't find the bugger.  I also can't seem to locate the entrance to the Old
City - help appreciated!

Peter

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 276       Mon Nov 02, 1992
SLEW                         at 22:51 EST

 Peter prof whatsis is in the library. Just wander around till you see
 the sign.

 Greg, you're right down where I'm stuck. If you look around some
 of the other passages on that same level there is a staircase which
 leads to the mummy room where you can get the wicked globe :) If you
 happen to find a map along the way...(or at least an extra set of keys
 for some of those grates in the same area with the holy work)... Thanx
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 277       Mon Nov 02, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:16 EST

  Peter the library is in the NE section of town north of the eastern exit
[leaving new city].

  GBSmith.  the trick is that there is as I explained before a pattern of
hitting the rooms.  like room 1 gains access to room two. then visiting room
1, then room 2 gets you to room 3. visiting room 1, 2 then 3 gets you to four
which I think got me to the east wall. I think I started with the southern
room as the first one.  But it was a repeatition of the trail of earlier
visited rooms at each step that got me thru.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 278       Mon Nov 02, 1992
C.YANG6 [Jason Yang]         at 23:23 EST

C.KANOLES:
  You have all you need to find the name of the witches.  You just have to
visit the haunting at night.

BARAK:
  You can solve the cave of the salty water once you get the *SPHYNX* map from
the good witch.

D.SAVALLI:
  You need the Wand Majestik to enter the crypt.

C.FREAS:
  You CAN follow the ghost by stepping through the wall.

SLEW:
  The map should be in the same chest as the holy work.  If it is not there,
someone else must have gotten there first.  The brush and comb if for latter.

Greg:
  The Globe is in the level beneath the holy work level.  Don't have a map so
can't tell you where exactly.  I do recall so you need a key to gain entry.

G.B.SMITH:
  Sorry, can't help you there.  I just kept walking around until a safe path
was formed.  The urn only disable the damage traps and is not vital to the
solution to the pits.

WATER SLIDE SOLUTION:
  I restarted the game and the combination to the slides are the same both
times.  The slide span three levels.  The highest level is just one path.  The
second level is controlled by three levers and the lowest level is controlled
by two levers.  If you look at the map, the second level levers are arranged
roughly as follows:
                          1
                        2 3
 and the levers on the lowest level are arranged as follows:
                          4
                          5
 The combination I used are:

                1: down
                2: down
                3: up
                4: up
                5: down

  Make sure you have the BAR/ROPE in place before you go down the slide or you
will not get to where you're suppose to.  Hope this helps.
                                         Jason
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 279       Tue Nov 03, 1992
AGNARI                       at 01:08 EST

  Well I've gotten in to Ny... found the thieves guild but cann't get in and
found the fun house - also can't get in.  Oh well maybe when I attack the
problem fresh tomorrow something will strike me but the clown face and it's
pin area doesn't jive with anything I've found so far.  Can't figure out why
the thieves won't let me in, the Ninja has some high, 84 or so, skill in
lockpicking and I think about 5 or 6  when it comes to stealing.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 280       Tue Nov 03, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 01:10 EST

Thanks. Well I finally got through to the Umpani detach.  But has anyone
received a promotion on the firing range.

I'm thinking about boosting my musket score but don't know if the promotion is
worth anything.

I'm still waiting for the cheat program so if anyone has it, can you tell me
what file# it is.  Or is it still waiting to be reviewed before it gets
uploaded on Genie?

Thanks

Phil



 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 281       Tue Nov 03, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 08:05 EST

 All, Thraxe for info on Wikum. I CAN'T believe there's a level BELOW

the Holy Work. Have never seen any down stairs in the area. Will

re-search.  Agnari, while I'm nnot into the legerdemain thing, it

seems to be a nice revenge on NPC's who follow you around everywhere.

So...just practice on Brother Tshober. He's an easy mark.  Just

don't get caught...He gets mad...then you have to run...unless

you're into off'ing drunks...(;)).   Firearms practice, either

with the musket or the ray gun in relatively safe areas may come

in handy, I think, so I'm building up that skill in one character.

Otherwise, why would they have put it in that Personal Skills

category?  Remember reaching the end of

BoCF and discovering you needed a high Dagger skill to finish?

GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!! So, it probably pays to have a well balanced

crew.  Are you sure there's a level below the Holy work?  Mummies?

Am I the only one having trouble finding it? Aieeeeee!!!

Many thanks for the replies!

Greg

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 282       Tue Nov 03, 1992
AGNARI                       at 16:35 EST

  Greg that dagger skill requirement at the end, I BELIEVE that it was changed
to another type of weapon skill in the later releases of BoCF just because it
came as such a suprise.  So maybe there are skills that aren't needed, but I'm
not counting on it.

  Don't know what I got for the musket marksmen ship, but I saved after
getting the 2nd or 3rd set of targets and just restored till we eventually got
lucky.  Think you get the chance to get a bettor grade of flack jackets for a
short period of time, going on the report to the King quest will end a lot of
activity in Umapi.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 283       Tue Nov 03, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:47 EST



 Jason Yang:  ARGGGGHH.  The *SPYNX* map!  The Good Witch did
 NOT give me such a map!  How, or under what circumstances will
 she give me that map!


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 284       Tue Nov 03, 1992
SLEW                         at 18:58 EST

 Thanks all for the info. I didn't see the map so I guess I'm done. Could
 anyone get into all those gates down there or is it just me who couldn't?

 Greg..since my party is down there now, I'll go see where that staircase
 is (I think there was a secret button to push or something like that, but
 I can't remember exactly.) Will let you know soonest.

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 285       Tue Nov 03, 1992
SLEW                         at 20:15 EST

 Greg, I checked it out..east and south of the ladder where you came into
 that lower level. The staircase is there, but search around for a secret
 button or something like that. I can't remember where it was. G'luck.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 286       Tue Nov 03, 1992
DIPLOMACY-1                  at 21:17 EST

Thanx!  I'll look for the library in the NE.  Next question - how do I get
into the Old City??

Where is the way down?

Thanx!
 Peter

p.s. I've maxed out New City save for three doors I can't open...



 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 287       Tue Nov 03, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 21:45 EST

  How do I get past the water in the Ukpyr mountains? I found one flower and
one switch but thats it. I ended up having to backtrack because I  tried to
tackle Crypt Island without doing a couple of areas( found out I need some
stuff before I could even enter). Also in Rattkin, after you  give the boss
rat the info on the ship he says something about New City old archives, and he
will be in touch. I have no idea what he is talking about, so after looking
around New City and playing on the terminal I left empty handed and off to
Ukpyr Mts. Anyone know what he is talking about? Thanks for anything.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 288       Tue Nov 03, 1992
R.LAWRENCE [The Count]       at 22:17 EST

Has anyone tried all four items from the Spirit of Life?  Are there really
four different branches of the game at this point?  And when you meet Xheng is
there really much difference between becoming an initiate of the 5 flowers or
not?...One more...The chests i have found that are supposed to have something
(ie: Chests in Orkogre and Old City)...someomne has always gotten there first!
Is this supposed to happen, or am I just slow? thanx, folks...talk to you
later.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 289       Tue Nov 03, 1992
C.YANG6 [Jason Yang]         at 22:22 EST

Jeff,
  The good witch doesn't GIVE you the map.  After restoring her, a passage
should open up just a few steps away, leading to the chest containing the map.

Peter,
  You need the old city access key from the Prof..  The access is around the
SW area of the map, pass the door marked CONDEMNED.

D.SAVALLI,
  What Barlone' meant was that by mentioning the word ARCHIVE to the Prof. in
New City will get you the Old City Access key.  Have you solved the Witch's
quest (reached after completing the Funhouse)? If you did, you will get a map
that will allow you to cross those waters.

  Still waiting for someone to help me out with those buttons in the City of
Sky...

                                        Jason

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 290       Tue Nov 03, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 22:37 EST

 Slew:  I foundthe gate I needed to unlock the secret to the mummies.

Onyx, I really did! So that's what the Good Keep key was for...

Agnari: Any chance of getting D.Bradley on for a conference like

he did for Bo?  I reread that one t'other night just to

get into his wacky brain.  He was cackling with glee over the

ideas he was considering for CoDS.  I'm sure he'd be happy with

the vexation he's causingus poor pilgrims.  Anyway, maybe there'd

probably be some interes'mongst us in talking with him, no?

Greg (shoulda stayed on shore...sheesh!) Beck

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 291       Tue Nov 03, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 23:02 EST

Well finally found the cheat file, but can't seem to find a decompression
program.

Anyone know what file# is for the LZH file decompressor.  I've only been able
to find shell programs.

Phil

PS - I figure with the cheat program, that promotion shouldn't really mean
that much since the rest of the Umpani scattered soon after.


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 292       Tue Nov 03, 1992
AGNARI                       at 23:18 EST

  Samurai over in the PC RT, page 615, they have the decompression program to
handle LZH files - program is LZA not sure what the number of the file is
though.

  Greg will ask Scorpia, I would guess that she has already started attempting
to arrange just such a conference.


  Whomever, I think i've checked all of the ratruins.and didn't find anything
to open the door to the funhouse. Even checked the forest area to the east of
the city but only found monsters out there and all paths deadended as far as I
could tell.  The guild keeps telling me to come back and the blindguy only
says to stay away from the funhouse. Yet somewhere along the way I picked up
the idea that the quild is the way to get into funhouse.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 293       Wed Nov 04, 1992
C.YANG6 [Jason Yang]         at 01:55 EST

AGNARI,
  You have to use the STEAL opion with the blind guy.  You will get something
that allow you to get into the guild.  And yes the guild is the way to get
into the funhouse.

                                        Jason, the Ninja...

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 294       Wed Nov 04, 1992
T.YEE2 [Freeman]             at 03:03 EST

Arghhh,
       Where the heck is the Holy Work?  Mapped out the entire area and got
the  globe but no HW.  Found the map in a chest  but no work with it as
someone mentioned  .  What the heck did I miss?  And where was the Helm {from
Giant cave?  Mustt've missed  that one too!

                                       Aged Blind One,
                                                      TY
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 295       Wed Nov 04, 1992
AGNARI                       at 15:59 EST

  Freeman is the blind guy I'm supposed to steal from  ;)  Steal  from a blind
guy, like that would have occurred to me????  In all of BoCF and CoDS I think
I've tried stealing from one guy, Quequeg and that was only after I knew I was
gone to kill him in a few seconds anyway. Oh well, thanks Jason.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 296       Wed Nov 04, 1992
PRINCE.NAMOR                 at 17:51 EST

Help!!! Stuck in Dane Tower...have all the items I need for Demon Spawn except
for the innards...where can they be found?
  Thanks,
  PN
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 297       Wed Nov 04, 1992
AGNARI                       at 18:49 EST

  Prince.N  they were found in the southern room beyond the Armory Grate on
the 3rd level of the Ok..... castle.  The northern room was the one with the
spears/bow&arrows/armor.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 298       Wed Nov 04, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 19:38 EST



 Dagnabit!  I went back to an older save game just prior to
 entering the Rattkin Ruins, and once I made it back into the
 Funhouse, I find that I don't have the wooden dowel!  Where
 was that Wooden Dowel???  I neglected to mark it down on any
 of my maps...  Sheesh.


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 299       Wed Nov 04, 1992
BARAK                        at 19:42 EST

I finally got the Rod of Crossing from the Ghost in the Cemetary in
Nyctalinth. Now, how do I get past the force field? I have done everything
else there is to do here above and below ground including dispatching the
T'Rang "Queen." H-E-L-P, anyone!!!! Thanks...
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 300       Wed Nov 04, 1992
SLEW                         at 19:58 EST

 Freeman there was a secret button on the wall next to a fountain that
 restores vitals. That room leads to the holy work. Is that where you found
 your map or somewhere else? My chest just had the holy work and I gave up
 looking for the map. It's in the room on the second lowest level of Munk
 whatever that looks like a cathedral and is full of water. Hope this helps
 a bit since everyone is so far ahead I don't get much chance too :)
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 301       Wed Nov 04, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 20:04 EST

BARAK-
   You have to equip the rod for it to work.

   Where is the cave I am supposed to find the Necromantic helm in the
giantlands. I want to get the Witch area over, and I am told I need this
helm, the only helm I found was a crusaders helm along with an axe and some
other armor, but that was in a lone chest. Can I get to the cave and to the
Witch mountains by traveling in the boat or can the entrances only be fouud by
land? I would appreciate the directions to the Giantland cave and the
entrance to the witch mountains. Thanks for any help.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 302       Wed Nov 04, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 21:20 EST

    I got the Sphinx map and I assume it gives a hint as to what item to use
in order to get across the fountaining water in a cave.  I thought it <oops I>
knew what it was referring to but I guess not.  What item am I supposed to use
to get by the water?
                            Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 303       Wed Nov 04, 1992
C.YANG6 [Jason Yang]         at 22:42 EST

D.SAVALLI,
  The entrance to the Giants cave is furthur south then where you climb up to
the witche's cave.  The helm is guarded by * S P O T *. Beware...

Agent,
  The item you need is in the museum in New City.

                                        Jason

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 304       Wed Nov 04, 1992
K.ROGERS1 [Kelly]            at 23:19 EST

I'm stuck in the same place Agent.  Jason, I assume you are talking about the
twistin' heads in the museum?  Where is the combo for the heads?

Another question...where is the key to the gate on the first level in  the
Dane tower?  And where is the boat map? tanks, Kelly
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 305       Thu Nov 05, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 00:08 EST

This is a stupid question but how do I get in the Rattkin Ruins short of
exploring all the forest.  I ran into a blocked area but can't seem to find a
way in. I seem to just keep hitting walls in the forest area.

Do I need something?

By the way thanks Agnari.  That cheat program is really helpful.  I don't know
how anyone can finish this game without some sort of cheating.

I defeated the T'Rang Queen only from the fact I boosted all my stats in
Persona to 100 and raised all my Hp's to a couple THOUSAND.

Of course this is no guarantee of a win since the Queen and her minions seem
to throw a lot of deadly poison/death wish/death spells and the Queen gets
about 5-6 attacks a round.

Finally, can anyone tell me where the other terminal accesses are. I only
found one in New City and that was #2.

I assume that there is one in Ukpyr and Nycalyinth but can't find them.

Phil



 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 306       Thu Nov 05, 1992
PRINCE.NAMOR                 at 01:01 EST

Samurai Sun: You need to use a bonsai tree in the sacred grove...don't
remember offhand where to get it, but check earlier messages...should be
there.
  PN
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 307       Thu Nov 05, 1992
AGNARI                       at 17:06 EST

 Samurai, as P.N. correctly points out use the bonsai tree in the sacred
grove.  Then when you get over to the ruins [slightly to the East of the grove
location I believe], you will be assisted in you quest for entry.

  So I've used the spool, and the feather light and I the see-saw thingie and
have gotten around in the upper levels.  However I can't seem to turn off the
water slide and don't have a clue about the glass dome with a hole in it.
Also my mage has a throwing skill of mid 90's and still can't hit the target
with the rubber ball.  So what am I doing wrong?  Put the dowdle in the hole
in the wall which didn't seem to do anything and I put the rubber band on
those hooks outside the other grill.  Of course now I can't get the rubber
band or the dowle back so I've been operating under the assumption that they
were used correctly.  Was this a bad assumption?  Oh

I've met with Barloni and of course don't have the info he wants so  the info
he's promised or anything else we'll get from him hasn't occurred yet.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 309       Thu Nov 05, 1992
SLEW                         at 18:25 EST

 Did anyone (besides me) -not- join the scouts in Ukpur? I'm wondering
 if I made a mistake fighting my way in...just wanted to see what happened
 to anyone else who didn't before I get much further there :)

 Does anyone know how many maps there are in the game? I only have 2..
 just wondering how many more I need to get. Thanks.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 311       Thu Nov 05, 1992
AGNARI                       at 18:30 EST

  Slew I've heard someone mention 9. I've got 7 at present but I'm not sure
you would call all seven Maps  but they are those * .... * type of items.

  Also haven't heard of anyone other then you NOT joining ;)
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 312       Thu Nov 05, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 18:32 EST

Kelly-
   The solution to the twisted heads puzzle is in the SPYNX map from the
witches quest.  It doesnt give you the item you need though.  I think that is
somewhere else in the museum,

Phil-
   I'd like to say that while I have no problems with other people using such
things as "cheat" programs, it IS possible, and I believe more fun, to win
without them.  It may take a little longer because of the restoring you will
have to do though.  For instance it took me almost two hours to get by the
corridor in the Dane tower where all the fireballs are.  You also mentioned
the T'rang Queen,  I found that by having my first three characters attack the
Queen and by having my 2nd three casting 7th level CRUSH, NUCLEAR BLAST, and
WORD OF DEATH spells the Queen was burger-meat. Just my two cents...
                                   Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 313       Thu Nov 05, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 18:34 EST

 Agnari,

Once you hit the target (Practice, practice... ;) ), get any

bar/rope combo's and put them in a chute upstairs.  Then set

about doing the odious, infamous lever puzzle torture. The

dowel and bar rope need to be in place to take the correct path

on the slide.  For me, after dropping thru the first hole, getting

a long, straight ride before falling thru the subsequent holes was

important. Others up-topic seem to have a more scientific approach.

A tip: Don Barlone is a royal sleazeball. Deal with him accordingly.
  Extortion isn;t my idea of a good time.  BTW, if you're plagued

by NPC's following you around, you can get some satisfaction by

improving someone's legerdamain skill.  Takes the pain out of

the constant pauses in the action.



Anyone adrift in the Sea of Sorrows?  I've been exploring

and don't seem to be getting anywhere. Explored the Hall of the Dead

on Crypt Isle, but couldnt' open the gates.  What

swhoops  What's need in the cubes outside?  Nice place to build

up stat's though (sick grin).  Where's Jan-Ette???? It gets so

lonely out at sea....

Greg


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 314       Thu Nov 05, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 18:38 EST

Kelly=
   sorry I made a mistake in my last post.  It is the BOAT map that leads to
the solution of the twisted heads, not the SPHYNX map.
                               Agent Oh yeah, the boat map is in the Old
Funhouse.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 315       Thu Nov 05, 1992
A.GEYER1 [Lex]               at 19:07 EST

Has anyone found a connecting passage or any other "connected-ness" between
the "starter" dungeon, just south of the western entrance to New City and Old
City in the Condemned Area?? Map-wise, they seem like they would connect but
I'll be darned if I can find where!! Just wondering if I'm chasing my tail on
this one?!? Lex
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 316       Thu Nov 05, 1992
AGNARI                       at 19:09 EST

  Greg thanks for the tip, now as soon as I find out where you were talking
about putting that rope/bar guess I'll have to start practicing.

  Agent, I know how you feel BUT then some really strick types would argue
that your over extensive use of save/restore is in a way cheating.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 317       Thu Nov 05, 1992
AGNARI                       at 19:11 EST

  Lex you might be chasing your tail, I never found one but I didn't spend a
whole lot of time looking.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 318       Thu Nov 05, 1992
A.GEYER1 [Lex]               at 20:25 EST

Agnari, thanks, I guess it's time to move on, I was getting dizzy anyway! (G)
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 319       Thu Nov 05, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 20:25 EST

Agnari-
   I guess you are right but if you can show me someone who get's through the
game without dying and having to restore then I WILL give up and start using
the cheat program!!!

   Well I'm currently attempting to map the Sea of Sorrows.  Mapping this area
makes everything up to this point look easy.  It is huge.  The only thing I
know of that I didnt finish up to this point is one room in New City I never
got into.  There is a room with a 9-digit number lock on the door in the
Umpani Detache.  Did anyone get into it?  I dont want to get too far and then
have to come back because I missed something.
                               Agent
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 320       Thu Nov 05, 1992
A.GEYER1 [Lex]               at 21:04 EST

Yes, got into the room in the Umpani Detache, you need the code that you get
in Ukpyr's HQ Security office files once the city is attacked and blown up.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 321       Thu Nov 05, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 21:09 EST

 Agent,

Garr-on-teed you'll be coming back to New City anyway to lick

your wounds, 'specially if you meet some of the "healthier"

monsters out there.  But wait!! While browsing AOL, I heard a

rumor that in this game,there is hidden a Mercurian Light Sword:

+6 to hit, 5-40 damage; can be used by all fighters; includes

KIA (critical hit power).  Also seen out there: The famous

Stud-Cur Bra +2, useful for the distaff types. So, press on,

pilgrims!

Greg

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 322       Thu Nov 05, 1992
D.HAN [Asst. Sysop]          at 21:19 EST

Okay, how do you get yourself into the Rattkin ruins?

        Danny

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 323       Thu Nov 05, 1992
SLEW                         at 22:09 EST

 Not having much fun being a //non-scout//. Everywhere I go I get combat
 and in the HQ I get "intruder alert" at every step. The combats are
 really nasty but with around 100k exp after each one (and some rooms are
 two and three cause each room seems to regenerate the guards!) and the
 party is going up levels fast. I couldn't use the firing range without
 the orders, but I got a musket and lots of shot from a chest, along with
 a flack jacket and a -9 flak armor or something. Is there any other way
 to get the firing skill without using the firing range? I had to kill
 General Yamo (intruder alert..<sigh>) and am hoping he doesn't have
 anything useful to say. No items from him either.

 A tip for those who don't know this..the lifesteal spell is great on
 the xeno. Mine has always worked so far, even at level 3 power. And
 practically the only spell I could get to work on gen yamo was the deep
 freeze one tho I din't try all the ones I have.

 I switched 3 professions in Uk...since the exp is so good. Whoever says
 that is the way to get more spells was right. I have too many to pick
 from now but with ninja, valkerie and bishop my party is pretty tough.
 The xenos do crits with the blasters btw :(

 Am worried that my refusal to join the scouts means I can't finish the
 game. What purpose does joining the scouts have? I have an older save
 somewhere so I could always go back but I like being the rebel and not
 joining :)

 Thanx for the tip on the maps.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 324       Thu Nov 05, 1992
D.SAVALLI                    at 22:44 EST

 Is there anything else in the Giant Caves other than the red flower and the
helm? I have moved on, and I know there are some areas further into  the water
that I could see, but couldn't get to. Thanks.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 325       Thu Nov 05, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 23:21 EST

THanks guys for the help on the Rattkin Ruins.  I used the Bonsai tree ealier
but I didn't know what else to do since it didn't look like anything had
changed.  The grove tree god told me someone would be waiting but couldn't
find the guy.

Oh well. I'll try that later. Right now I'm stuck in the Munkharama.

I found the underground dungeon but can't seem to get access to the area which
is half underwater.  It's blocked off by gates which I don't have the keys. I
guess maybe it's because I still haven't figured out a way to cross the pit
where the trap door opens up.

Levitation doesn't seem to work.

Anyway, I have the Key of the Temple, Pweter key and the Onyx key plus several
iron keys.

I still haven't been able to get into those doors which has that brass goblet
half covering a hole. What does it take to get in those rooms?

Is the well connected to the land of dreams?  I visisted the Monk who sells
potions but he won't tell me that much until I figure out the land of dreams.

Agent - I hate cheat programs as well but in this case it was worthwhile. I
never would have defeated the T'rang Queen with my puny 11th level characters.
My mage only had 40 HPs.  Plus the biggest spell I had was Fireball and
Iceball with strengths of 40 and 50.  I didn't even have Nuclear Blast and
waiting around to pick up 250,000 EPS is an awfully long time to wait.

I guess CODS must measure how strong your party is and sometimes throws in
equally powerful monsters to boot.  All I know is that I picked up 6 maps from
the T'Rang Queen. WOW.  It was a lot of work but I was glad to find so many
maps in one location.

Phil

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 326       Fri Nov 06, 1992
C.YANG6 [Jason Yang]         at 00:22 EST

Kelly,
  Actually, I meant the pyramid thing where you get an EGG if you reach in and
feel inside.  The twisting map is for getting a boat but you need, you guessed
it, the *BOAT* map where you get in the funhouse.  The T'Rang Queen pointed me
to that one.

Phil,
  I only found the one access still functioning in New City.  Is there some
reason you need more than one terminal?

Greg,
  You are about where I am.  Have you explored the Dragon mountain and the
City of Sky.  You would need the Serpent Wand to enter the mountains and reach
City of Sky.  Oh yeah, that's where the *light* *sword* resides.  A powerful
weapon!

SLEW,
  The only benefits I've gotten from joining the Umpani was learning the
Firearm skill and some cash for completing their missions.  None that lead to
*maps* or special items.

D.SAVALLI,
  The only thing I found pass those waters is a chest with some so- so armors
and weapons.

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 327       Fri Nov 06, 1992
AGNARI                       at 00:25 EST

  Ok I suspect that the *Temple* map aids in the chute glass wall puzzle but I
don't see hou.  It mentions all four corners but I've only discovered 3 levers
on one level and 2 on another.  Did I miss some or is this a brute force type
of puzzle?
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 328       Fri Nov 06, 1992
C.KANOLES                    at 03:10 EST

I managed to get the witch names in the forest, and now I'm stuck on two other
puzzles.  I went to the Island of Crypts and got into every gate but the one
with the serpentine dragon on it.  There's an urn in the room directly behind
it, but nothing I have seems to work.

I then went to the City of Sky, and am stuck at the Second Test statue. I
thought it might have something to do with the *Crystal* map, but can't seem
to make that work.

Anyone besides Jason and myself in City of Sky?  Hello, Hello?  Gee, it's
lonely here.  If it weren't for the recent election, I think my husband would
be talking divorce.  Help me, please!

Ziploc
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 329       Fri Nov 06, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 03:38 EST

Naw, I just thought that there would be more than one terminal in each of the
cities since it'll be a pain shuttling back and forth to New City.

BTW, I can't seem to get Vi Domina out of prison, so I assume that I won't be
able to get her out til late late late in the game almost to the very end.

I still need help in Munkhrama.  Agnari are you also stuck there?
 I also have the temple map but that just tells me how to get into the
dungeon.  I don't even know if that's the lands of Dreams.

How does one get past the pit on that level? Once I step on that plate, the
pit opens up and I fall in regardless of the levitation spell.

I found a button on the other end of the wall outside the room but it doesn't
work.

Phil






 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 330       Fri Nov 06, 1992
D.MILLER31                   at 04:24 EST

Someone please help!!!! where can I find the names of the witches? I have the
neurohelmet, but please, the location! Or better yet, can someone email me the
names????? thanx for saving my sanity. Great Game!!!
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 331       Fri Nov 06, 1992
R.GRIDLEY [Rick]             at 06:27 EST

No one has finished this beast yet? How many hours have you guys put into the
game?
 I want to play but it seems just too big for the few hours a week I have to
play games. It would take me years to finish.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 332       Fri Nov 06, 1992
AGNARI                       at 07:51 EST

  Phil think I've finished Munkharama, or at least for now I hope. The temple
map I have I suspected was for the water slide problem in the rat ruins but
now that you mention Munkharama the four corners thing makes much more sense.

  Rick, so what if it takes years to finish.  If you liked BoCF and have a
savegame position from it you will most certainly enjoy this one. Besides if
you take years to finish, that should be just in time for Wiz VIII
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 333       Fri Nov 06, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 08:03 EST

 Jason,

Thanks.  I assume I'll use the serpent wand around the foggy

cliffs area. But I thought I'd}/. {{wMo#GI'd tried that already.

C.Kanoles: Howdja get throug the two side gates in the Hall o'

the Dead?

Rick: This game sure is no weekend jaunt, eh? I spent four months

on BoCF. This game is going *slighty* faster because of the

new *mouse* weapon :) .  It's worth the time IMHO. Few rpg's

have me laughing one minute, and jumping back in the chair with

my hair standing on end the next. D.W. Bradley, the evil genius

behind the game is gracious in letting us see into his imagination.

Enjoy the journey!

Greg

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 334       Fri Nov 06, 1992
A.GEYER1 [Lex]               at 08:49 EST

If I might add a "P.S." to Slew on the question of joining the scouts or
not......I also received from General Yamo a weapon, a "Thermal Pineapple"
that he said would aid me in my quest to kill the T'Rang Queen. I have no idea
of the weapon's effectiveness yet as I chose to begin the game from the
"dragon" ending and seem to be working somewhat backwards from where the rest
of you are and haven't found the T'Rang Queen yet.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 335       Fri Nov 06, 1992
AGNARI                       at 11:18 EST

  Ouch Lex you are right on track there about the thermal Pineapple [aka
gernade].  But actually I found it necessary to use it just to get to the
T'Rang Queen you run into some sticky eggs and I found the pineapple wonderful
for blowing up that 2x2 room that otherwise seemed impossible to cross.  So I
can't say how effective it was on Queenie.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 336       Fri Nov 06, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 18:19 EST

 Jason (cc: C.Kanoles)

Thanks for the info. Nice welcoming committee at the entrance

to the Dragon Mt's, eh? Arggh... Sky City is a mapper's

delite.  Now, about that second puzzle: Using the crystal map,

I've been able to hit the buttons and not have it crap out on

me until the end.  Do you think this means there's only one

pair of buttons out of synch?  Tough puzzle!  C.Kanoles: Yeah,

my wife noticed me playing LATE last night and commented that I've

been "playing that game for *a week* (my *'s). Wish it had been

that long!! Hope to trade insights into the button puzzle.

My current working order (first letters of buttons only) is

"D,G,P,W,C,SK,ST,SER,M) This is based on my reading of the Crystal

Map. Any thoughts, folks?

Greg

PS: 'Nother nice touch to this game is sunshine and open spaces.

I got claustrophobic in BoCF and EOB's.  After a while, it's a

case of "GET ME OUTTA THIS PLACE WITH THE SIX FOOT CEILINGS!!"

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 337       Fri Nov 06, 1992
AGNARI                       at 18:25 EST

  Greg if your party was comprised of dwarfs and fariers then the 6foot
ceilings wouldn't be such a head butting problem ;)

  So which map, parchment has clues to solving the water slide in Rat Ruins???
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 338       Fri Nov 06, 1992
D.BILEK1 [Agent]             at 18:30 EST

Agnari-
   I never found a map with clues to the water slide.  I believe the only way
is to try every combination until you get the right one.  A solution was
posted but im not sure if it is random or not!  If it is random, good luck.
There are only 32 combinations!

Greg-
    A mercurian light sabre???  Must be like Excalibur in Bane.  I heard about
it but never actually found it!. Any hints on where it might be?
                                     Agent

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 339       Fri Nov 06, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:34 EST



 Samurai Sun:  There are TWO linkage servers numbers.  Did you
 solve Nycalinth, get the Mystery Ray, and use it on the
 frozen Savant Berzerkers located underneath the T'rang Queen's
 abode?? You'll get a second server linkage number that helps
 with Vi Domina. I've gotten a transmitter from her, and she
 has told me the location of the the As-tral Doh-mah-nae as
 she puts it.

 Yes!!  Finally finished the blasted Rattkin
 Ruins, got past those waters in the Cave and released Vi
 Domina....   On to the Sea of Sorrows...


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 340       Fri Nov 06, 1992
SLEW                         at 18:34 EST

 Hmmm...my next question has anyone gotten/beaten the trang queen without
 the pinapple? (I guess I'll find out, huh?)
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 341       Fri Nov 06, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 18:42 EST



 Agnari:  Jason Yang's solution works!  This is not a random puzzle
 as some as thought.  I did the levers as J.Y said and it worked...

 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 342       Fri Nov 06, 1992
D.MILLER31                   at 20:57 EST

Please,Help me in my misery.....Where can the names of the witches be found?
Or better yet, what are their names.  Email please!!!! Or post here. This is
the *spoilers* topic<G>
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 343       Fri Nov 06, 1992
G.BECK7                      at 21:48 EST

 Agnari:  Yeah, but Felpurrs are sensitive about their fur and hate

the bald spots they get scraping their heads. Bong! Slide: I

did one lever at a time until I got the most unusual ride,

mentioned above.  Then found the other lever that enable me to

do the

tTarzan number.  You WILL solve this one tonight...Your ship is

leaving!

Agent: A hint for the Sword? Psst...It's south of New City ;)

Ducking,

Greg

 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 344       Fri Nov 06, 1992
C.FREAS                      at 22:05 EST

I seem to be stuck in the dane tower. I have the book of immortality and can
get to the pit at the top. It says that you need the blood of our enemies, a
stone and ashes of diam. I have the stone and the ashes but I must have missed
the blood. WHat and more importantly where can I find it? My second question
concerns the gate with the candle holder that comes after the fireball
hallway. What itme is necessary to open it and wherewhere can it be found?
Thanks  c.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 345       Fri Nov 06, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 22:06 EST

Slew - You don't want to really meet the T'Rang Queen, but the pineapple can
only be used on the eggs near the entrance to the chamber.  All I got was the
maps which I guess were ok but for the level of effort to kill her and her
assassins, it wasn't worth it.

I still think I got gyped from the Umpanis who don't even seem to be around
anymore.  I killed Shritis and the Queen and haven't really gotten much from
the Umpani.

Lewarx didn't even show up when I killed Shritis.

Has anyone else managed to meet up with another Umpani outpost yet?

Arghh!

How does one get into the Thieves Guild?  I met up with BleinMeis but he
doesn't really seem to be much help other than to tell me that I need special
charms.  I assume then that the Guild possess the needed item to get into the
Funhouse.

Well I've given up on Munkharama for now until I can solve the rest of the
Rattkin Ruins.

Phil


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 346       Fri Nov 06, 1992
AGNARI                       at 22:15 EST

  Phil, for some unexplained reason you have to steal from Blinmeis to get
into the guild.  Guess it's from novel I didn't read.  Yes you are correct in
that the path into the funhouse lies with getting insdie the guild
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 347       Fri Nov 06, 1992
J.THOMAS69 [Jeff Thomas]     at 22:21 EST



 C.Freas:  What you need are some Munk Innards which you should
   have obtained back in Orkogre Castle.


 Phil:  Try STEAL from Blindmeis.


 Just spent 2 hours in this blasted Sea and haven't met come
 across anything interesting but fought about 10,000 Pirahanas...
 Boring...boring...


 Jeff T.
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 348       Fri Nov 06, 1992
SLEW                         at 22:24 EST

 Well after killing gen yama all the other npc were gone. only the guards
 remain. I left Ukpyr cause couldn't do nothing including lift the objects
 in the spaceport supply room.

 What maps does the t queen have? I know i need the rest of the maps. Can
 I finish the game without going there? I guess I can't do the egg room
 without the pinanplle. Is she very necessary or can I maybe buy the maps
 from other npcs? I have lots of gold from killing all those umpani and
 their chests. Outside the headquarters is a great gen spot of 100k
 exp combats each time :)
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 349       Sat Nov 07, 1992
C.KANOLES                    at 00:20 EST

Greg:   Actually, C.Kanoles is my hubby.  My name is Taylor.  I don' remember
how I got thru gate in IoC, I believe I found keys by searching the remains.
ALL the remains.  I still can't figure out the dragon gate, though.

As for the annoying buttons, here are a couple of my combos.  BTW, when you
press map first, does it immediately crap out on you too? D,P,W,Se,M,C,G,Sk,St
and    D,P,W,Se,C,G,Sk,M,St.  It always quits when I hit Star with no results.
I sure hope I'm not grasping at  Crystals by using this stupid map.

Here's a list of the maps that I have.  "S" stands for "Solved" 1 Sphinx
S 2 Fools  - 2 Legend  -
 34 Temple  S 5 Crypt  ? 6 Serpent  S 7 Boat  S 8
Crystal  ? (ARGH!) 9 Dragon  ?

AGNARI:   I saw Jason's post regarding the levers, checked my notes, and yes,
we seem to have used the same combination.  I believe Jason did a diagram of
the levers, so just check his message.

Taylor (Ziploc)
 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 350       Sat Nov 07, 1992
P.CHIU [Samurai Sun]         at 01:15 EST

Slew  - it depends on how far you have played the game.  At first only a few
people have them then as time passes the more powerful groups will collect
more and more.

I think I played so long that only a few groups have them now.

When I killed the Queen(who happened to be male, strange if you asked me),
she/he had 6.  I ppicked up the Crystal, Fools, serpent, Dragon, Legend, and
Temple maps.

Gee, stealing from a blind mouse, how unethical!  What next, killing a patient
to cure the disease?

Oh well, I guess ethics will be thrown out the window tonight.

Thanks

Phil

PS - So what is the secret to the well in Munkharama? I still don't know what
to do in the lower dungeons with the pit.


 ------------
Category 28,  Topic 7
Message 351       Sat Nov 07, 1992
R.LAWRENCE [The Count]       at 03:39 EST

SLEW... I also never had the opportunity to join the Umpani, so I killed
everyone as I walked through the city. Unfortunately, I never got the thermal
pineapple or the Firearms skill (which I need for the ray gun I picked up); I
don't know what the result of this will be.

Meanwhile..I'm trying to tie up loose ends.  Does the Polar Munk pool do
anything?...and...In the Nyc. cemetery, can anyone grab the staff in the two
small mausoleums?...and...Has anyone found a way out through the Power Bars in
the Nyc. Cemetery. Thanx...Be back later
 ------------
REPly to topic,   QUIt reading
STArt new topic,  #,#-# read prior
PERmanently ignore this topic
MARk or UNMark this topic
or <RETURN> to continue ?